News just in

[Stoic]

True, who ever actually looks in their garage where their classic car happens to be also?

Unless you want to say Biden has age-related neural issues.

You understand that looking in the garage is not quite the same as going through all the documents in the boxes in the garage.

Right?

I have boxes in my garage that I haven't opened since my wife and I moved in almost 30 years ago.

[Diogenes]

You understand that looking in the garage is not quite the same as going through all the documents in the boxes in the garage.

Right?

I have boxes in my garage that I haven't opened since my wife and I moved in almost 30 years ago.

Joe's boxes are somewhat more recent. If not looked at any relevant statutes, but I was suspect mere procession damning enough. If Trump had kept material at multiple unsecured locations, the Left would have gone berserk. And the public just now learning about this despite documents being found before the midterms. Now that the midterms are over, the Leftist Media is likely just trying to keep Biden from running in 2024.

[Stoic]

Joe's boxes are somewhat more recent. If not looked at any relevant statutes, but I was suspect mere procession damning enough.

It's politically embarrassing, anyway.

For it to be more than that, prosecutors would have to be able to prove that Biden intentionally removed the documents from the White House. If they can, then Biden could have some trouble after he leaves office.

If you find it hard to believe that Biden might not be responsible for the documents being there, you might want to read this.

[Diogenes]

It's politically embarrassing, anyway.

For it to be more than that, prosecutors would have to be able to prove that Biden intentionally removed the documents from the White House. If they can, then Biden could have some trouble after he leaves office.

If you find it hard to believe that Biden might not be responsible for the documents being there, you might want to read this.

So you're suggesting that Biden just happened to have classified and top secret material just lying around unsecured for four years and no one noticed at the National Archive? Should someone so careless have the nuclear football?

[Sparko]

Stoic. Classified documents are kept in secure locations. They are not to be kept in unsecure locations. Even if Biden tries to claim, as you suggest, that "they were mixed in with unclassified documents and moved accidentally" that is still a violation. They should never have been mixed in with unclassified documents or moved to an unsecure location. Biden is responsible for those classified documents and taking care of them making sure they are secure. He didn't do that. Whether purposefully or accidentally, makes no difference.

[rogue06]

Which, as far as we know, hadn't even been looked at since they were moved out of the White House.

Keep trying, though.

I guess the wind just blew papers in to old Joe's private library and placed them in different locations.

Go on. Pull the other one. It's got bells on it.

[Stoic]

So you're suggesting that Biden just happened to have classified and top secret material just lying around unsecured for four years and no one noticed at the National Archive?

I don't believe the National Archives has a record of every document generated in the White House, not even all the classified documents.

Should someone so careless have the nuclear football?

It hasn't been established yet exactly how careless Biden was.

[Stoic]

Stoic. Classified documents are kept in secure locations. They are not to be kept in unsecure locations. Even if Biden tries to claim, as you suggest, that "they were mixed in with unclassified documents and moved accidentally" that is still a violation.

Yes, a violation that happens quite frequently, even by people who don't have aides that they rely on to help keep it from happening.

They should never have been mixed in with unclassified documents or moved to an unsecure location. Biden is responsible for those classified documents and taking care of them making sure they are secure. He didn't do that. Whether purposefully or accidentally, makes no difference.

It makes a difference with regard to whether there is any criminal liability.

[Stoic]

I guess the wind just blew papers in to old Joe's private library and placed them in different locations.

We don't even know if the documents had been taken out of whatever boxes they were placed in when Biden moved out of the White House.

It would appear you have a lack of imagination, but you've proven many times that you have a pretty good imagination. So I'll just suggest that you just don't feel like using it when it comes to imagining ways that it might not be Biden's fault. Otherwise, you couldn't have missed the possibility that boxes were stored in the library, but there wasn't enough room for all of them, so others were stored in the garage.

The condemnations should really wait until we have more information, but I realize that's not possible.

[Sparko]

Yes, a violation that happens quite frequently, even by people who don't have aides that they rely on to help keep it from happening.

Uh no, it doesn't happen quite frequently and when it does happen, people go to jail.

It makes a difference with regard to whether there is any criminal liability.

The criminal liability is in taking the classified documents out of the SCIF and leaving them unsecure. You can't do that accidentally. Especially if you are the Vice President. If anyone should know better it would be the 2nd most powerful person in the world. Ignorance is not an excuse.

[Stoic]

Uh no, it doesn't happen quite frequently and when it does happen, people go to jail.

It probably happens a lot more than you think, and people only tend to go to jail when they do something stupid like try to destroy evidence or lie to investigators.

Lavarello lied to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agency and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service when she was questioned about the classified documents.

Generally people who fess up (especially before they are caught) get treated pretty leniently.

The criminal liability is in taking the classified documents out of the SCIF and leaving them unsecure. You can't do that accidentally.

I'm pretty sure it happens. True, that one Top Secret/SCI document is a more serious violation than all the other classified documents put together. But unless they can find some way to show that he took it intentionally, it's just a security violation, not a crime.

Especially if you are the Vice President. If anyone should know better it would be the 2nd most powerful person in the world. Ignorance is not an excuse.

High level politicians are more likely to be careless with documents than most people, not less likely.

[Sparko]

It probably happens a lot more than you think, and people only tend to go to jail when they do something stupid like try to destroy evidence or lie to investigators.

Lavarello lied to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) agency and the Naval Criminal Investigative Service when she was questioned about the classified documents.

Generally people who fess up (especially before they are caught) get treated pretty leniently.


I'm pretty sure it happens. True, that one Top Secret/SCI document is a more serious violation than all the other classified documents put together. But unless they can find some way to show that he took it intentionally, it's just a security violation, not a crime.


High level politicians are more likely to be careless with documents than most people, not less likely.

Ah! I get it now, you have no idea how any of this works but you want to pretend you are an expert. LOL.

[Stoic]

Ah! I get it now, you have no idea how any of this works but you want to pretend you are an expert. LOL.

I don't claim to be an expert, though I used to work in a SCIF. But you don't have to be an expert to figure out that what I've told you is true.

[Sparko]

I don't claim to be an expert, though I used to work in a SCIF. But you don't have to be an expert to figure out that what I've told you is true.

You worked in a government SCIF? and you don't know how important it is to keep track of classified documents? And that the person who removes something from a SCIF is responsible for keeping it secure? And "it was an accident" is no excuse?

[Stoic]

You worked in a government SCIF?

It was actually a defense contractor SCIF. But my brother was in charge of a government SCIF, and from his description, their rules were a lot more lax than ours.

and you don't know how important it is to keep track of classified documents? And that the person who removes something from a SCIF is responsible for keeping it secure? And "it was an accident" is no excuse?

I know that it's important to keep track of classified documents, and also that human beings make mistakes.

And that after a mistake is made, it's more important for the government to find out about it and take corrective actions than it is to punish someone who made a mistake. So they strongly encourage people to report their own mistakes, and subsequently are more lenient with them than with people who try to hide their mistakes.

Naturally, if someone makes too many mistakes, he'll have his security clearance taken away. But even then he won't go to jail.

People go to jail when it's clear that what they did was not an accident, or when they try to cover up by destroying evidence or lying to investigators. Because those people are more dangerous than those who just make mistakes.