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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    We have designer babies already: It's called choosing the parents. If you want a whiter child: Marry someone who is white. If you want a taller child: Marry someone who is tall. If you want a smart child: Marry someone who is smart.

    People have been creating "designer babies" in this way since humanity began.
    I can't tell if you know what's meant by "designer babies" or being intentionally obtuse.

    Scientifically, the idea of scientists doing anything in particular to create "better" babies is pretty absurd and is about a billion times more movie than reality. This is because while some really serious genetic conditions can be localized on the genome, and hence knocked out reasonably easily via methods like the one mentioned which replace a whole chromosome with another chromosome, things we would consider potentially "good" traits that a parent might want to have in their child (e.g. intelligence) are not localized within the genome and are massively distributed across the genome so you'd have to be doing individual gene editing on a super massive scale and science is not remotely close to having a good understanding of how such massively distributed traits function or what side effects gene editing on that scale might have if we could even do it. So while scientists might be able to help people with serious genetic disorders have a child that didn't inherent their serious genetic disorder, the idea of someone giving a list of positive traits they want the child to have and scientists making this happen is orders of magnitude different.

    Positive gene editing and negative gene editing are both gene editing. You also seem to be forgetting the Luna and Nina controversy surrounding He Jiankui.


    Since society one the whole now seems fine with same sex parenting, and fine with surrogates giving birth to implanted eggs, the only potential concern I can see here is around whether the child would suffer any physiological damage by being created via this method. Looking at the science of what they are doing, I can't think of a reason there could be any problem with the offspring. But just because I can't think of a reason, doesn't mean there might not be one, and extensive testing on mice and other animals should be able to tell us that. The paper reported no issues with the mice offspring in their experiment who appeared normal in all respects and went on to have children of their own. But certainly I would want to see further testing of this done, and done in other species, before it was approved for use in humans. Fortunately many animal species have much shorter lifespans than humans so we can see the results of this in multiple generations of multiple animal species in quite a short time period.
    Slavery was once on the whole accepted by society. Surrogacy is an interesting topic. On the one hand, you could argue that women should be free to rent their wombs, on the other, the practice rather obviously is exploitive of women, especially low-income women both domestically and internationally. It also objectifies a woman as an incubator. While I would agree that surrogacy should not be made illegal, I would agree it's highly exploitative and is a moral failure to engage in the practice. Another instance of society throwing women under that bus to placate the LGBT community. If a couple has fertility issues, adoption is always available.
    P1) If , then I win.

    P2)

    C) I win.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      This week scientists reported the successful creation of an offspring from two male parents. It's in mice, but there's no biological reason AFAICT why the same couldn't be done in humans.

      Using a stem cell from one of the males, they converted the chromosomes from XY to XX and converted it to an egg cell, and then fertilized it from another male mouse. The offspring was completely normal.

      The creators of this technology are primarily touting it as a way to avoid some inherited genetic disorders by knocking out chromosomes and bringing in others. But it seems like the greater demand is going to be from married same-sex couples who want to have biological children together.
      The spirit of Frankenstein is alive and well.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Trying to avoid tyranny -



        JERUSALEM — Few figures have stood astride the Israeli public arena like Benjamin Netanyahu, the longest-serving prime minister in the country’s history.

        Over a record six terms, the leader known as “Bibi” has honed an image that is more puppet-master than politician, so often has he eluded scandal, bounced back from defeat and outwitted opponents (and more than a few allies).

        But his government’s move to overhaul the judicial system has created a paralyzing political crisis — setting off mass protests, sending the currency plummeting and sparking warnings of “civil war” from Israel’s president. As the upheaval nears its fourth month with no sign of easing, and even spreads into the ranks of Israel’s revered military, the prime minister seems unable, or unwilling, to apply his vaunted touch.



        WaPo

        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          The spirit of Frankenstein is alive and well.
          We cannot possess God-like powers, but not be God.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment



          • Israel:



            Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel fired his defense minister, Yoav Gallant, on Sunday barely a day after Mr. Gallant became the first member of his cabinet to call for a halt to the government’s contentious plan to overhaul the country’s judiciary.

            Announced in a one-line statement by the prime minister’s office, the move intensified an already dramatic domestic crisis — one of the gravest in Israeli history — that was set off by the government’s proposal to give itself greater control over the selection of Supreme Court justices and to limit the court’s authority over Parliament.


            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
              Israel:



              Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel fired his defense minister, Yoav Gallant, on Sunday barely a day after Mr. Gallant became the first member of his cabinet to call for a halt to the government’s contentious plan to overhaul the country’s judiciary.

              Announced in a one-line statement by the prime minister’s office, the move intensified an already dramatic domestic crisis — one of the gravest in Israeli history — that was set off by the government’s proposal to give itself greater control over the selection of Supreme Court justices and to limit the court’s authority over Parliament.

              Hypatia has her own "Pay attention only to this example" thread on this topic.
              P1) If , then I win.

              P2)

              C) I win.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                Israel:



                Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel fired his defense minister, Yoav Gallant, on Sunday barely a day after Mr. Gallant became the first member of his cabinet to call for a halt to the government’s contentious plan to overhaul the country’s judiciary.

                Announced in a one-line statement by the prime minister’s office, the move intensified an already dramatic domestic crisis — one of the gravest in Israeli history — that was set off by the government’s proposal to give itself greater control over the selection of Supreme Court justices and to limit the court’s authority over Parliament.

                Yeah, so much for Israel being the sole light of democracy in the Middle east.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                  Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel fired his defense minister, Yoav Gallant, on Sunday barely a day after Mr. Gallant became the first member of his cabinet to call for a halt to the government’s contentious plan to overhaul the country’s judiciary.

                  Announced in a one-line statement by the prime minister’s office, the move intensified an already dramatic domestic crisis — one of the gravest in Israeli history — that was set off by the government’s proposal to give itself greater control over the selection of Supreme Court justices and to limit the court’s authority over Parliament.
                  I'm finding the media reporting on this slightly confusing. Some of the articles are saying Netanyahu wants to remove the Supreme Court's ability to overturn Parliament's decisions, but wikipedia's already got Israel on the list of countries where the elected Parliament's decisions can't be overturned by an unelected Supreme Court.

                  Other coverage is suggesting his motivation for this is to escape his own long-running criminal prosecutions for his corruption, while other coverage suggests these changes will harm Palestinians.

                  In general the media around it doesn't seem very coherent.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    I'm finding the media reporting on this slightly confusing. Some of the articles are saying Netanyahu wants to remove the Supreme Court's ability to overturn Parliament's decisions, but wikipedia's already got Israel on the list of countries where the elected Parliament's decisions can't be overturned by an unelected Supreme Court.

                    Other coverage is suggesting his motivation for this is to escape his own long-running criminal prosecutions for his corruption, while other coverage suggests these changes will harm Palestinians.

                    In general the media around it doesn't seem very coherent.
                    As long as Bibi gets bad press, I doubt the media cares.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      I'm finding the media reporting on this slightly confusing. Some of the articles are saying Netanyahu wants to remove the Supreme Court's ability to overturn Parliament's decisions, but wikipedia's already got Israel on the list of countries where the elected Parliament's decisions can't be overturned by an unelected Supreme Court.

                      Other coverage is suggesting his motivation for this is to escape his own long-running criminal prosecutions for his corruption, while other coverage suggests these changes will harm Palestinians.

                      In general the media around it doesn't seem very coherent.
                      smiley jawdrop.gif

                      For once we are in agreement.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Russia and China look forward to a Right Wing Isolationist USA:



                        To American allies, Mr. Trump’s unrelenting assault on the U.S. legal system, and the fact that he has been backed up by so many other Republicans, is perhaps the most alarming short-term fallout from his indictment.

                        Yet for adversaries like Russia and China, the prospect of Mr. Trump mounting another campaign for the presidency, while at the same time defending himself from criminal charges, plays into their narrative of American chaos and decline.

                        Evan S. Medeiros, a former China adviser to President Barack Obama, said, “The Chinese will use this to reinforce the argument they’ve long made: that America is consumed by its democratic dysfunction, and that China is a better bet.”


                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          smiley jawdrop.gif

                          For once we are in agreement.
                          The broad strokes:

                          https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...ut-2023-02-13/

                          The American MAGAists would probably align themselves with Netanyahu.
                          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                          “not all there” - you know who you are

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
                            Russia and China look forward to a Right Wing Isolationist USA:



                            To American allies, Mr. Trump’s unrelenting assault on the U.S. legal system, and the fact that he has been backed up by so many other Republicans, is perhaps the most alarming short-term fallout from his indictment.

                            Yet for adversaries like Russia and China, the prospect of Mr. Trump mounting another campaign for the presidency, while at the same time defending himself from criminal charges, plays into their narrative of American chaos and decline.

                            Evan S. Medeiros, a former China adviser to President Barack Obama, said, “The Chinese will use this to reinforce the argument they’ve long made: that America is consumed by its democratic dysfunction, and that China is a better bet.”

                            No source and merely posturing. Dems have no problem aligning themselves with Russia or China.
                            P1) If , then I win.

                            P2)

                            C) I win.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                              No source and merely posturing. Dems have no problem aligning themselves with Russia or China.
                              Only if "the big guy" gets his 10%

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Only if "the big guy" gets his 10%
                                When I looked into this, it turned out the email that mentions 10% for the big guy was one among many different suggestions as to a possible structure of the company, this one suggesting they could involve Joe Biden in it and he could have a 10% share (lower than others involved in the company). The suggestion was dropped in later emails and the company was subsequently set up with Joe Biden having no share.

                                I would appreciate it if you didn't falsely misrepresent this as evidence that Joe Biden was getting 10% from Hunter's business dealings, when it is not evidence of that.
                                "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                                "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                                "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                                Comment

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