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UK woman arrested for silently praying across from abortion clinic

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  • Originally posted by eider View Post

    Thank you for that....
    And ...Yes....... in this case she was arrestable as soon as she entered the area. She has a past history of demonstrating at and being at such venues for 18 years.
    The Police wanted to speak with her about previous incidents.

    PC:- I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come to the police station with me to answer some questions about today and further days where there are allegations that you have broken public space orders?
    She refused. He arrested her.
    She was charged with breaking the PSPO for praying. In. Her. Head.

    The order which you showed reads:- ‘Protesting’ means being in the restricted area (whether by yourself or with others)....' and since this woman had a previous history, and since she couldn't give a lawful reason for being there........ she was 'being there'...... loitering.
    wrong. You had to redact the rest of that quote in order to shoehorn in your excuse of "loitering"

    The full quote says:

    ‘Protesting’means being in the restricted area(whether by yourself or with others) and
    engaging in any act of approval or disapproval or attempted act of approval or disapproval,
    with respect to issues related to abortion services, by any means. This includes but is not
    limited to, graphic, verbal or written means, prayer or counselling

    Notice the word I bolded and underlined? "AND" - that means that being in the area is not enough to be considered protesting. You have to be in the area AND engaging in one of the prohibited acts. Prayer is included but not "loitering" - they can't arrest someone for just being in the area.



    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Biden is the one who wears Depends.
      Presidential Pampers.

      When they get wet the presidential seal appears.


      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • Originally posted by eider View Post

        Thank you for that....
        And ...Yes....... in this case she was arrestable as soon as she entered the area. She has a past history of demonstrating at and being at such venues for 18 years.
        The Police wanted to speak with her about previous incidents.

        PC:- I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come to the police station with me to answer some questions about today and further days where there are allegations that you have broken public space orders?
        She refused. He arrested her.
        he arrested her for her silent prayer. As did the cop in her second arrest. Your ego won't let you admit you were wrong.

        The order which you showed reads:- ‘Protesting’ means being in the restricted area (whether by yourself or with others)....' and since this woman had a previous history, and since she couldn't give a lawful reason for being there........ she was 'being there'...... loitering.

        You literally deleted an entire part of the sentence in your quote. Namely the qualifier. "And" means the person must be present in the area but also doing one of the things that follow.

        Being there in and of itself is not a violation of the order otherwise no one would be allowed in the area at all and it would be a ghost town and the clinic wouldn't be staffed or have visitors.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          I still love the use of the term "voluntarily" here. Come with us voluntarily, or we will arrest you and take you with us.
          Our police ask folks to comply 'voluntarily' all the time, it's a procedure. I see this most often in 'traffic cops' documentaries (just luv the chases!) the police always invite folks to allow various searches before using their warrants.
          I have detained many many hundreds of folks over 30 years, and every time I invited them (first) to return with me voluntarily. You just must have some different system where you are.


          You have two choices Eider, you can either voluntarily give me your wallet, or I will shoot you and take your wallet.
          How clever of you! You don't want to invite me to leave an area, or answer questions in your example, you want to threaten, murder and thieve off folks??.
          I'm so impressed with your amazing analogy.


          Comment


          • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

            Do you now concede prayer is included as a form of protest and therefore prayer is criminalised?
            You just haven't been reading my posts, have you!
            I have said time and again that I think this Conservative Government is out of its mind to include prayer in that piece of legislation...which it did.
            My very first posts on this thread tell that this particular woman was busted as soon as she entered the area.
            Since your grasp of all this is not very tenuouis I will assist you with a history of my posts:-

            Post 101
            It was being there, within the distance specified by the court order. If she had crawled within that distance on all fours in a Mr Snowman suit she would have got nicked.

            Post 587
            I gave a link to a video where this woman explained that she has been campaigning outside abortion clinics in the West Midlands for 18 years.

            Post 959
            PC:- I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come to the police station with me to answer some questions about today and further days where there are allegations that you have broken public space orders?


            You see? At no point did this Police Constable need to mention her prayers.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              But merely standing on the other side of the road, silently praying can get you arrested.
              It wasn't required with that particular woman, as you well know.
              But the government has reinforced the law with it's recent vote to include prayer outside these venues as a breach of the order.
              I can wait for our next elections.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                She was charged with breaking the PSPO for praying. In. Her. Head.
                Which case? The Birmingham one or that other one?

                The Birmingham PC never needed to mention 'prayer'.
                Again! :- This particular woman was 'arrestable' as soon as she entered that area.

                Post 101
                It was being there, within the distance specified by the court order. If she had crawled within that distance on all fours in a Mr Snowman suit she would have got nicked.
                Post 587
                I gave a link to a video where this woman explained that she has been campaigning outside abortion clinics in the West Midlands for 18 years.

                Post 959
                PC:- I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come to the police station with me to answer some questions about today and further days where there are allegations that you have broken public space orders?


                wrong. You had to redact the rest of that quote in order to shoehorn in your excuse of "loitering"

                The full quote says:

                ‘Protesting’means being in the restricted area(whether by yourself or with others) and engaging in any act of approval or disapproval or attempted act of approval or disapproval, with respect to issues related to abortion services, by any means. This includes but is not limited to, graphic, verbal or written means, prayer or counselling


                Notice the word I bolded and underlined? "AND" - that means that being in the area is not enough to be considered protesting. You have to be in the area AND engaging in one of the prohibited acts. Prayer is included but not "loitering" - they can't arrest someone for just being in the area. [/FONT]
                I tell you again....... the above didn't apply to her....... she was already wanted for questioning. I only needed to show what I did show.

                Again:- I'm sad that these buffoons have included prayer in any part of this Order or the general legislation. It's completely unnecessary.

                On the side:- Different to the West Midlands, the PSPOs for the Manchester Area (further north) allow up to three persons to stand outside these clinics, groups of four or more break the Order, so I do wonder if a single person outside a Manchester clinic can juggle, counts bricks, bird-watch.......or pray. It looks to me as if they can.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by eider View Post
                  Our police ask folks to comply 'voluntarily' all the time, it's a procedure. I see this most often in 'traffic cops' documentaries (just luv the chases!) the police always invite folks to allow various searches before using their warrants.
                  I have detained many many hundreds of folks over 30 years, and every time I invited them (first) to return with me voluntarily. You just must have some different system where you are.



                  How clever of you! You don't want to invite me to leave an area, or answer questions in your example, you want to threaten, murder and thieve off folks??.
                  I'm so impressed with your amazing analogy.

                  Just putting to bed the idea of "voluntarily" when there is no real choice.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by eider View Post

                    You just haven't been reading my posts, have you!
                    I have said time and again that I think this Conservative Government is out of its mind to include prayer in that piece of legislation...which it did.
                    My very first posts on this thread tell that this particular woman was busted as soon as she entered the area.
                    Since your grasp of all this is not very tenuouis I will assist you with a history of my posts:-

                    Post 101
                    It was being there, within the distance specified by the court order. If she had crawled within that distance on all fours in a Mr Snowman suit she would have got nicked.

                    Post 587
                    I gave a link to a video where this woman explained that she has been campaigning outside abortion clinics in the West Midlands for 18 years.

                    Post 959
                    PC:- I'll ask you once more, will you voluntarily come to the police station with me to answer some questions about today and further days where there are allegations that you have broken public space orders?


                    You see? At no point did this Police Constable need to mention her prayers.
                    So you're just going to refuse to address the fact that the order explicitly considers prayer protesting at the same time it criminalises protesting. Checks out.
                    P1) If , then I win.

                    P2)

                    C) I win.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                      Just putting to bed the idea of "voluntarily" when there is no real choice.
                      You just don't get it..... .... But for me, having used, commenced or tried to use the same invitation on every occasion (for shop thefts) over tens of years, and having taught it to hundreds of adult pupils and delegates, any invitation to do something by any Police Constable of Contracted Operative makes such perfect sense.

                      Police 'invite' folks to comply, to allow, to take part, in every possible situation, and when people criticise them for this then you can be sure that they are biased for some reason.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                        So you're just going to refuse to address the fact that the order explicitly considers prayer protesting at the same time it criminalises protesting. Checks out.
                        Poor you. There is not one post from me which refuses to address the inclusion of prayer in this particular PSPO. I have simply pointed out that the Constable in this Midlands incident didn't bother with it.
                        I think that the inclusion is totally daft and unnecessary and should not have been included....was not needed.

                        So your comprehension skills have been wanting.
                        But for you it is homework time....... you can now roam back through this thread to find any post of mine which supported the idea that prayer should have been included in the Order.

                        Good luck.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by eider View Post

                          You just don't get it..... .... But for me, having used, commenced or tried to use the same invitation on every occasion (for shop thefts) over tens of years, and having taught it to hundreds of adult pupils and delegates, any invitation to do something by any Police Constable of Contracted Operative makes such perfect sense.

                          Police 'invite' folks to comply, to allow, to take part, in every possible situation, and when people criticise them for this then you can be sure that they are biased for some reason.
                          Voluntarily is simply an inaccurate word.

                          It would be better to say "You are going to come with us to the station. Do you wish to come along peacefully, or should we make this an official arrest?" That would be the accurate wording.

                          It. A, points out that the person has no real choice in the manner of whether or not to go to the station. And B. Points out that the only real choice they have is whether or not to do so peacefully through coercion or through force.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            Voluntarily is simply an inaccurate word.

                            It would be better to say "You are going to come with us to the station. Do you wish to come along peacefully, or should we make this an official arrest?" That would be the accurate wording.

                            It. A, points out that the person has no real choice in the manner of whether or not to go to the station. And B. Points out that the only real choice they have is whether or not to do so peacefully through coercion or through force.
                            Yup. Pretty much like how the cops used to ask someone to come along quietly. They were being placed under arrest either way, it's just how it was going to be handled.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Jolly Old England...

                              Bible college fires theologian for tweet against homosexuality, threatens to report as terrorist: lawyers

                              Dr. Aaron Edwards was told his tweet caused 'distress' among members of Britain's Methodist Church

                              A Methodist Bible college in the U.K. fired a Christian theologian and threatened to report him as a terrorist because of his tweets in opposition to homosexuality, his attorneys claimed.

                              https://www.foxnews.com/world/bible-...rorist-lawyers
                              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                                Voluntarily is simply an inaccurate word.

                                It would be better to say "You are going to come with us to the station. Do you wish to come along peacefully, or should we make this an official arrest?" That would be the accurate wording.
                                You should write Police training courses, CD...really.
                                I was particularly overjoyed with your '.....peacefully, or.....' threats to a middle aged woman of about 8 stone.

                                ...made my morning!
                                Daily Reporter:-
                                Police abduct woman from street after making a 'peacefully or' threat.........

                                Comment

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