UK woman arrested for silently praying across from abortion clinic

[Diogenes]

She was breaching a PSPO. That is a fact.

No one here disagrees that the PSPO was breached by (silently) praying.

[Cow Poke]

She was breaching a PSPO. That is a fact.

And look at all the attention the abortion problem is getting!

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

And look at all the attention the abortion problem is getting!

Well on this board certainly.

[Cow Poke]

Well on this board certainly.

Across the UK, as well.

[rogue06]

She was breaching a PSPO. That is a fact.

They arrested her before making any determination of that.

The cop walked over and asked if she was praying. He couldn't be bothered with asking about what. I mean it could have been "Oh dear God. Please tell me I didn't leave the gas oven on." Or "Please God, Let my daughter's boyfriend be gone by the time I get home." Or praying about a decision she was going to have to make. Folks pray about all sorts of things all of the time.

But the fact that she was praying was enough to take her into custody. Not what she was praying about (since they didn't ask), but just the simple act of praying. IOW, busted for praying. Now illegal in some parts of Britain.

[Cow Poke]

They arrested her before making any determination of that.

The cop walked over and asked if she was praying. He couldn't be bothered with asking about what. I mean it could have been "Oh dear God. Please tell me I didn't leave the gas oven on." Or "Please God, Let my daughter's boyfriend be gone by the time I get home." Or praying about a decision she was going to have to make. Folks pray about all sorts of things all of the time.

But the fact that she was praying was enough to take her into custody. Not what she was praying about (since they didn't ask), but just the simple act of praying. IOW, busted for praying. Now illegal in some parts of Britain.

And she has brought attention to that, causing quite a flurry of responses.

[Gondwanaland]

She was breaching a PSPO. That is a fact.

It's a fact, huh? Cool, so then you can quote from the PSPO in question the part that she breached. Let's see it. Put up or shut up, you've been asked to quote the section that supports your claims multiple times by multiple posters. Time to pony up.


(I WILL grant that she did breach the PSPO. By silently praying. Which the fascists determined was a breach of the order. Which is what she was arrested for. Praying inside her head.)

[Gondwanaland]

I have never written that Vaughan-Spruce was "standing there with a sign and yelling at people" but demonstrations like the one in the photograph are the sort of thing in which she and her group participate.

She was in a restricted area where she had no valid reason to be - outside the grounds of an abortion clinic. And the buffer zone around the Roberts Clinic had been set up with the support of local residents as a result of the following [my emphasis]:

From September 2022 https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...c-say-25145022

Neighbours living near to a Birmingham abortion clinic say they are 'sad and frustrated' to see anti-abortion protests have resumed nearby weeks after a new 'buffer zone' was set up to protect patients and staff. A Public Space Protection Order (PSPO) came into force on September 7, banning all abortion protests outside the Robert Clinic in Kings Norton.

The order was granted after more than 2,000 people responded to a consultation following a rise in reports of anti-social behaviour since 2018. These included reports of large groups chanting, blocking women from accessing the clinic, protesters handing out graphic leaflets and approaching local schoolchildren, plus altercations with local residents.

Following the consultation, the size of the proposed PSPO map was reduced so as not to include nearby schools or churches. Signs were erected along the border on September 20, however residents say tensions in the local community have flared once again after 'pro life' activists were seen protesting at the edge of the buffer zone, outside the local Catholic church.

Read more - Patient 'cried in car' after she was 'harassed' outside Birmingham abortion clinic

The protests are understood to be organised by 40 Days For Life, which usually pitches up directly outside the Robert Clinic twice a year for 40 consecutive days. Neighbours claim the protests have already caused heated arguments in the street, prompting police to be called. They are now calling on the city council to extend the PSPO.

Local resident Liz Bates said: “We were concerned at the outset that the boundary of the buffer zone would not be sufficient and would be too great a temptation for the protesters to resist. Sadly they have decided to go ahead and ignore 90 per cent of the community who find their protest abhorrent.

"We are concerned that the increased prominence of their protest, with signs, will prove to be a flash point and bring more tension to our neighbourhood.

"The protest caused regular disputes and arguments outside the clinic, this is not going to be any different. We are calling on the council to extend the Buffer Zone further as this is causing distress and tension."

Another resident, Katy Buxton, said: “I am just so sad and frustrated, after years of campaigning we finally have the buffer zone in place and the 40 Days for Life campaigners have literally set themselves up on the edge of the zone outside the church. Unless the council and police can do something they will be there from 8am to 8pm every day for the next 40 days.

"To have to open your front door every day to this and to have to walk past them everyday is just soul destroying, and heaven knows how hard it is for the women using the clinic."

According to council documents, the size of the PSPO zone was reduced following written representations from the Archdiocese of Birmingham and meetings with 40 Days For Life. Responding to the consultation, a spokesperson for 40 Days For Life claimed its protesters had been subjected to incidents of spitting and having cars drive down the street towards them at high speed, swerving away at the last second.

On granting the order, Birmingham City Council said a number of activities had a 'detrimental effect on the quality of life' of those in the locality, therefore justifying the PSPO restrictions. A council spokesperson said: "Our Community Safety Team are aware of recent activities around Robert Clinic in Station Road, Kings Norton and we are working with residents and West Midlands Police to monitor the situation, as the remit of the PSPO cannot be extended unless there is evidence to support the need.

“The PSPO protecting the area around Robert Clinic focuses on ensuring people visiting and working there have clear access without fear of confrontation. Any local authority seeking to implement a PSPO must have robust evidence for its introduction, which guides the conditions and location – this includes concerns and complaints received from the community.

"The map used for the public consultation for this order was there to seek views and wider input; all contributions received during consultation were included in the evidence that informed the final scope and conditions. During public consultation we received contributions from 2,105 people and held a number site events, public meetings and conversations with residents, local councillors and campaigners.

“Evidence was collated and prepared by the council’s Community Safety Team and reviewed by the council’s legal department, to finalise the order’s conditions and area covered. The map was reduced as none of the evidence submitted supported the original wider map for enforcement.”

A spokesperson for West Midlands Police said: "We were called but did not attend and no one was arrested. We’re aware of concerns from residents and the local neighbourhood policing team are working with them and have been notified about the issues raised yesterday. We accept the right to freedom of expression and peaceful protest is a key part of any democracy."

BirminghamLive approached 40 Days for Life for comment and was told the group had 'helped many women in a caring, loving and compassionate manner' to prevent over 100 abortions. A spokesperson said: "40 Days for Life in Birmingham have been active for over 10 years."

They added: "The vigil participants have organised the campaign in a peaceful, prayerful and legal manner and have been careful to conduct the campaign in a legal manner, given the introduction of a PSPO. A PSPO in effect criminalises silent prayer, which we believe is disproportionate to the situation, while it also prevents women from receiving help in a loving and compassionate manner."

Pro life groups did not respect the buffer zone.

Again, you keep quoting the unsupported propaganda from the city claiming that the public supported it despite the undisclosed questionnaires only accounting for a mere 2000 or so people.

You also continue to fail to quote from the PSPO to support your claim that her presence there violated the PSPO. Again, she was arrested for her mental prayer, not for her presence.

[RumTumTugger]

It's a fact, huh? Cool, so then you can quote from the PSPO in question the part that she breached. Let's see it. Put up or shut up, you've been asked to quote the section that supports your claims multiple times by multiple posters. Time to pony up.


(I WILL grant that she did breach the PSPO. By silently praying. Which the fascists determined was a breach of the order. Which is what she was arrested for. Praying inside her head.)

She did reach the PSPO in question Gondwannaland the particular PSPO prohibited praying

[RumTumTugger]

Again, you keep quoting the unsupported propaganda from the city claiming that the public supported it despite the undisclosed questionnaires only accounting for a mere 2000 or so people.

You also continue to fail to quote from the PSPO to support your claim that her presence there violated the PSPO. Again, she was arrested for her mental prayer, not for her presence.

HA is refusing to quote the particular PSPO because she does not want to admit that they indeed criminalized prayer.

[Gondwanaland]

HA is refusing to quote the particular PSPO because she does not want to admit that they indeed criminalized prayer.

Yuuuup

[Cow Poke]

So, when a cop has to literally walk up to you and ask you if you're committing a crime, you can bet the community would be better served by dealing with actual criminals who are clearly violating the law without having to be asked ---- 'excuse me, sir, are you really holding a knife at that woman's throat?'.

[eider]

Of course. Do you notice how so often Paul is cited on these boards?

Yes. A high % of Christianity is all about Paul, not Jesus, imo.
If humanity had never read or heard a word about what Jesus said or did, Paul's claims could still have built many churches, methinks.

[eider]

Technically yes. Jesus had completed his role, .................................................. ...

Enough. Enough.

[eider]

More and more a "police state"?

Oh you wouldn't like it here, I think.
If I should cycle from home in to the local town and back I might have been recorded (passing by) on twenty camera systems.
If I should drive/ride in to the local city and back (16 miles total) my registration number might have been recorded and checked for insurance, tax, road test, + any info about previous drug crimes, DUIs, or outstanding arrest warrants.
Whereas (40yrs back) I used to row across the Estuary to see my old dad I don't think I'd get past the first twenty miles before I would be either stopped/checked or clocked on radar systems and met wherever I might land.
Whereas folks once came here with their ski-boats and jet-skis to speed around our bays, our foreshore is now deserted/silent because none are allowed to launch anywhere along this coastline without a special key to unlock the slipway barriers. All gone.

True.

It's all so dreadful........ so it's best not to bust ASBOs and Perimeter Protection Orders.
Russia and China would seem like heaven-on-Earth to us poor folks.