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America's favorite idiot wants to suspend the constitution

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  • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

    Jesus also said to her to sin no more. She was forgiven, but the expectation was that she stop committed adultery, not "Go and have a good time." Repentance includes the a intentional attempt to avoid further sin.
    I made the same point, but, apparently, that is very inconvenient to the argument.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I'll take that as an attempt at humor.
      God can use whom He wants where and when He wants for whatever purpose He chooses.

      More seriously is the comparison to nebachudnezzar that has been used to deceive a large number of Christians almost to the point they are willing to Bow down to him as an idol or savior.
      Wow, talk about an attempt at humor!

      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

        No, it isn't. It is a continuation of XDS that started during the Bush years, then into the Obama years, and the Trump Years. I try to remain civil with you ox, but it's these wild declarations of yours that really do make you seem obsessive with tunnel vision

        Get over Obama derangement syndrome
        Obama Derangement Syndrome
        Charles Krauthammer: Bush Derangement Syndrome is spreading
        And in Clinton's Administration they called it "Clinton Crazies" but later started calling it derangement syndrome: Clinton Derangement Syndrome: Diagnosing the real reason that so many Americans hate Hillary -- that's from August 2016, a couple months before Trump was elected.

        And from a month earlier: The Return of Clinton Derangement Syndrome -- that's from before Trump was nominated by the Republicans (although he was the presumptive nominee since May).

        And from February 2016, around the time of the first primary: Clinton Derangement Syndrome Is Alive and Well

        Okay, enough of this, let's skip a few dozen and jump back to June 2014 -- a year before Trump even announced his candidacy: Here Comes Clinton Derangement Syndrome

        And skipping over another one from earlier in 2014, and a few more from 2013... back in November 2009 -- when Trump was a Democrat enamored by Obama and Hillary: Clinton derangement syndrome

        I pretty much quit at that point.




        Btw, there was a book published in 2009 by Kevin M. Culwell titled "Reagan Derangement Syndrome"



        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Are any of them biggies in the Democratic Party, Jim? Have any of them become millionaires while sucking the public teat?
          Did I miss the part where you restricted your disdain to specific individuals?


          Back to --- if you don't absolutely hate Trump....



          I know this may come as a complete shock to you, brother - but even Democrats will post on their websites what they think their base wants to hear.
          Which is making an excuse for why that did it, not countering the fact they did do it.

          Either you're for abortion or against it, Jim. You seem to have a really hard time just flat out saying that abortion is wrong.
          Not true. Almost Everyone makes at least one exception: when the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. So in reality, there are almost no people that are against abortion in the absolute sense.

          My position, which is derived from both science and fairly in depth study of ex 21:22-23 is that the earliest phases are not yet a human person ( though most certainly human life) and as such there do exist cases in that early period where abortion is justified that do not threaten the woman's own right to live. Rape and incest being two of them.


          "focus on it"? How bout - if you look on a woman with lust you have already committed adultery in your heart?
          He took what was already known to be sin and expanded upon it.
          Yes, jesus expanded the definition of sin to inclde what was in the heart. And he did that, not to give each of us longer fingers to pointcat others, but rather to help us each individually recognize the extent of our own sin. And in so doing helped us to understand why we do not judge others but rather offer them grace and mercy in the name of Christ.

          And he demonstrated how to do that with the woman at the well, and the woman caught in adultery


          Yeah, you kinda left out the part where He told her not to do it anymore.
          I had mentioned it previously in this thread - yes?


          Jesus never pointed to government programs to care for the poor, Jim. Never. Neither did the rest of the NT. My "day job" is 'caring for the poor' through our faith based programs, and all the Democrats have done there is to make the job much harder with a lot more red tape.
          He didn't mention health care plans or moon landings either. Such things, AFAIK didn't exist in his time. However, they evolved in our nation and others in response, at least indirectly, to the moral sense of obligation to the poor instilled in our culture by the church and the teachings of Christ.

          As for government red tape, I'm sure it's a pain in the backside, and I don't fault you for being annoyed by it even a little
          Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-05-2022, 03:00 PM.
          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            "Trump explicitly said X, but I know he really mean Y!" is not a fact, it is delusional paranoia.
            I have not said even once in this thread anything in that form, or even that implies anything like what that sort of statement implies. I in each post reference known facts, statements, and events.
            Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-05-2022, 03:04 PM.
            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
              Did I miss the part where you restricted your disdain to specific individuals?
              Don't even know where you're going with that - seems more like snit than response.

              Which is making an excuse for why that did it, not countering the fact they did do it.
              Both sides say and do whatever it takes to keep their sorry butts in power - I clearly condemn it regardless of party.

              Not true. Almost Everyone makes at least one exception: when the pregnancy threatens the life of the mother. So in reality, there are almost no people that are against abortion in the absolute sense.
              OK, seems like a bit of picking of nit -- but, whatever.

              My position, which is derived from both science and fairly in depth study of ex 21:22-23 is that the earliest phases are not yet a human person ( though most certainly human life) and as such there do exist cases in that early period where abortion is justified that do not threaten the woman's own right to live. Rape and incest being two of them.
              Interesting that "science" is what's driving a lot of formerly pro-abortion people to reconsider, and why so many pregnant women in our clinic change their mind when they see "the science".

              He didn't mention health care plans or moon landings either. Such things, AFAIK didn't exist in his time. However, they evolved in our nation and others in response, at least indirectly, to the moral sense of obligation to the poor instilled in our culture by the church and the teachings of Christ.
              Not quite sure what that has to do with BOTH instances where Jesus clearly condemned sexual impurity.
              You start with an argument from silence - I show you two areas where Jesus most certainly condemned sexual sin, but you ignore those and talk about moon landings.

              As for government red tape, I'm sure it's a pain in the backside, and I don't fault you for being annoyed by it even a little
              It's mostly your Democrat 'saviors' screwing up the system keeping good people from doing God's work. They even shut down our soup kitchen on some technicalities that are totally ignored with regards to numerous local restaurants.

              So, lemme try to narrow this down a bit, because the 'back and forth' gets a bit tedious.

              Abortion.
              You seem not to be troubled at all that the Democrat Party is majorly pro-abortion, in bed in an incestual with Planned Parenthood, and justify it by the standard liberal argument regarding "personhood". The unborn baby is not yet a "person", but you won't be able to tell me when that baby magically transitions between "not a person" and "a person".

              Christian Charity.
              You seem to be of a mind that God approves of the liberals doing an incredibly inefficient job of "relief", much of which just enables the poor, and much of which prevents charitable organizations from actually doing what they do best.

              But I get it -- you're a "social gospel" kind of guy, apparently focusing much more on the temporal than the eternal.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                OK, you really need to stop this "half Gospel" utter nonsense ---- “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.” It is necessary for your argument that you totally ignore the condemnation Jesus had for the sexual sin --- He didn't tell her, "you're fine, just keep doing what you're doing".

                The woman at the well? He called her out for her sexual sin. That he wasn't on a campaign against sexual sin is beside the point - he clearly condemned it.

                Where is a direct condemnation? He merely told her what her history was wrt marriage. There is no condemnation or even rebuke in his words. He just won't let her tell him a half truth about her history.

                Do you suppose she would have been so happy and eager to tell the town all about Him if the part of the conversation not recorded was how evil and sinful she was?

                The woman caught in adultery, go and sin no more is what he told her AFTER he released her with 'neither do I condemn you' But no where have I said he condoned her actions. What i have emphasized is that he chose not to condemn her without any overt declaration of repentence on her part.

                Again, the point im making is the Mercy and Grace given in such instances. The place for rebuke was to the rich and powerful, those that are the oppressors, those that ignore the plight of the poor.

                And that stands in direct opposition to conservative approaches to these same issues.
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  Where is a direct condemnation?
                  SERIOUSLY? The very fact that she was convicted immediately when she knew that HE knew?

                  He merely told her what her history was wrt marriage. There is no condemnation or even rebuke in his words. He just won't let her tell him a half truth about her history.
                  wow

                  Do you suppose she would have been so happy and eager to tell the town all about Him if the part of the conversation not recorded was how evil and sinful she was?
                  more wow

                  The woman caught in adultery, go and sin no more is what he told her.
                  Yes, because what she had been doing was sin.

                  But no where have I said he condoned her actions.
                  Nowhere have I claimed you did.

                  What i have emphasized is that he chose not to condemn her without any overt declaration of repentence on her part.
                  Jim, what is repentance? One major component - and the one that really matters - is that you STOP doing what it was you were doing.

                  again, the point im making is the Mercy and Grace given in such instances.
                  Where do you show Mercy and Grace, Jim?

                  The place for rebuke was to the rich and powerful, those that are the oppressors, those that ignore the plight of the poor.
                  He basted them, yes, but did not let her off the hook.

                  And that stands in direct opposition to conservative approaches to these same issues.
                  The conservatives over which you stand in such incredibly harsh judgment, absent Mercy and Grace?

                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    Actually MM, you are imposing your own prejudice and bias on my words if you think I'm saying Jesus winked at any sin. My words are about the hypocrisy of the conservative reversal of Jesus' priorities, not whether or not certain sexual acts are sinful.

                    In the few passages we have addressing personal sexual morality by Jesus, Jesus offered grace to those caught in or otherwise not living what was considereed righteous private lives wrt sex. But he offered stern and uncompromising rebuke to those who ignored the poor or otherwise lived in lavish comfort without a thought for their plight and especially for those who heaped hardship on those already struggling.

                    One can't help but see the obvious implications of that reality against what those calling for righteousness in conservative circles advocate.
                    Abortion, substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, even atheism were not critical issues for first century Israel. There was no debate that those things were a sin, so Jesus did not need to focus on them, nor was it relevant to his ministry which was about correcting misunderstandings of the Old Covenant and establishing the New Covenant through his death and resurrection. To take from this that we should therefore not confront certain sins when they become relevant to us is a fundamental distortion of scripture. Notice in Paul's epistles that he does, in fact, directly confront reports of sexual immorality and drunkenness and harshly condemns them. If we follow your reasoning, Paul was out of step with the teachings of Jesus. Do you really believe that?

                    Also, it's not just conservatives who are living in lavish comfort without giving a thought for the poor. Look what happened in the ultra liberal community of Martha's Vineyard when 30 illegal immigrants showed up on a bus: they called the National Guard and had the illegals hauled away in less than 48-hours. To pretend that greed and callousness is only a conservative vice is intellectually dishonest.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post
                      If Trump somehow managed to be the Republican nominee in 2024, I'd vote for him. Democrats already want to expand SCOTUS because they're throwing a temper tantrum over Barrett. I'll vote for whomever has the (R) in the 2024 general.
                      I did that last month, voted (R) all the way down the ballot. Not that I am enamored with Republicans (not my party) but I see Democrats as the common enemy.

                      If Trump is the nominee in 2024 would I vote for him? Most likely, unless the Democrat Party does a complete 180 in the meantime.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                        I have not said even once in this thread anything in that form, or even that implies anything like what that sort of statement implies. I in each post reference known facts, statements, and events.
                        You have repeatedly, throughout this thread, claimed that Trump is very clever at saying one thing while meaning another.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          Abortion, substance abuse, sexual promiscuity, homosexuality, even atheism were not critical issues for first century Israel. There was no debate that those things were a sin, so Jesus did not need to focus on them, nor was it relevant to his ministry which was about correcting misunderstandings of the Old Covenant and establishing the New Covenant through his death and resurrection. To take from this that we should therefore not confront certain sins when they become relevant to us is a fundamental distortion of scripture. Notice in Paul's epistles that he does, in fact, directly confront reports of sexual immorality and drunkenness and harshly condemns them. If we follow your reasoning, Paul was out of step with the teachings of Jesus. Do you really believe that?
                          This would put him in the same camp as H_A and (whoever else) who are arguing that Paul's "gospel" was entirely different from the Gospel of Jesus.
                          It's always a troubling sign when a Christian has to go to "well JESUS never said...." even when the rest of the NT "says".

                          Also, it's not just conservatives who are living in lavish comfort without giving a thought for the poor. Look what happened in the ultra liberal community of Martha's Vineyard when 30 illegal immigrants showed up on a bus: they called the National Guard and had the illegals hauled away in less than 48-hours. To pretend that greed and callousness is only a conservative vice is intellectually dishonest.
                          But they felt bad about it. Maybe?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            This would put him in the same camp as H_A and (whoever else) who are arguing that Paul's "gospel" was entirely different from the Gospel of Jesus.
                            It's always a troubling sign when a Christian has to go to "well JESUS never said...." even when the rest of the NT "says".
                            This is "Red Letter Christianity" thinking, where the words attributed to Jesus are given more importance than the rest of scripture when, in fact, every word in the Bible is equally important because they all come from the same source.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              This is "Red Letter Christianity" thinking, where the words attributed to Jesus are given more importance than the rest of scripture when, in fact, every word in the Bible is equally important because they all come from the same source.
                              Yes, which is why the section often known as "God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity" by Paul in Romans 1 must be ignored - "Jesus never condemned homosexuality".

                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Yes, which is why the section often known as "God’s Wrath Against Sinful Humanity" by Paul in Romans 1 must be ignored - "Jesus never condemned homosexuality".
                                Jesus never condemned child sacrifice so he must have been okay with that as well.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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