Originally posted by alaskazimm
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Desantis revision of Native American history
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOK, I don't know much about Alaska except what I see on TV, but that Alaska State Trooper show seems to portray the same thing --- when they have to go into a village of Alaskan Natives to arrest somebody, they work with the local authorities, yes?
Of course, the problem is that you can't end the system without causing great harm in and of itself.
Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 11-28-2022, 04:13 PM.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View PostOh, I won't claim its the only reason. I do believe it is a major contributor. Racism, exploitation, and many other things contributed. The reservation system works as an extra weight on a man who's struggling to swim in heavy seas.
Of course, the problem is that you can't end the system without causing great harm in and of itself.
One of them is one of our lawyers for Alliance Defending Freedom - the firm that is on retainer with our church.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
In a sense, though, it's kinda like the black community not having a leader to challenge them to excel --- I know at least two American Indians who left the Res to go to college escape the system.
One of them is one of our lawyers for Alliance Defending Freedom - the firm that is on retainer with our church.
However, the NAs have a higher price, culturally. They aren't just leaving home, they are also leaving thier people .
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
Think of it like a company town whose plant has closed. Kids there face a similar conundrum. Stay, and likely end up in poverty, or move on and make a better life. Leaving means leaving the life you knew behind.
However, the NAs have a higher price, culturally. They aren't just leaving home, they are also leaving thier people .We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.
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Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View PostThink of it like a company town whose plant has closed. Kids there face a similar conundrum. Stay, and likely end up in poverty, or move on and make a better life. Leaving means leaving the life you knew behind.
However, the NAs have a higher price, culturally. They aren't just leaving home, they are also leaving thier people .
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
Do you have an answer? What is the US government currently doing (or not doing) that is preventing Native American communities from prospering?
As for whether or not Desantis lied, you would first have to make the case that the land was the rightful property of whatever native tribe happened to occupy it at the time, and considering the natives' views of ownership (that everything was theirs for the taking no matter who stood in their way), and their custom of regularly taking land and resources from each other in brutal and bloody conflict, that's a tough case.to make.
The history of the Iroquois Confederation is a classic of your contorted negative view of the Native American Nations:
Iroquois League of Five Nations was Democratic Confederation dating to ~1142 AD
Did not answer the question: Did DeSantis liar pants on fire tell the truth when he said the USA did not steal Native American lands. remember the USA took lands from Native Americans establish by TreatyLast edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2022, 06:47 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostDid not answer the question: Did DeSantis liar pants on fire tell the truth when he said the USA did not steal Native American lands. remember the USA took lands from Native Americans establish by Treaty
Let us also acknowledge that Native American society was just as warlike as any other in human history. The anthropologists’ vision of Native Americans as peace-pipe-smoking environmentalists which gained purchase in the 1970s has long since given way to a more Hobbesian portrait of pre-Columbian reality. In North America, most Natives were primitive farmers. This means that (with some exceptions) they had no permanent settlements: they farmed in an area for a few decades until the soil got tired, before moving on to greener pastures where the hunting was better and the lands more fertile. This meant that tribes were in constant conflict with other tribes. It also meant that chiefs were continually vying for power, creating confederations under themselves, and that the question of who owned the land was in a more or less constant state of flux. In most of North America, the idea that any one piece of land belonged to any one tribe, for more than 50 or 100 years, is therefore highly questionable. In short, if you looked at a map of Native Canada 200 years before Europeans arrived, it would have been entirely different. In the meantime, some groups of natives would have slaughtered, bullied or enslaved others. Should we not be grieving for those Native Canadians whose land was stolen by other Native Canadians? Or is that somehow OK? I don’t suppose there is an app for that.
The idea that the Europeans stole some land which had belonged in perpetuity to any one tribe is therefore ludicrous. The situation in most of North America was similar to northern Europe on the eve of the Germanic migrations, or western Europe as the Celts were moving across the landscape. Precisely to whom the land belonged in any given century at these periods in history was anyone’s guess. The very notion of property is a Graeco-Roman invention which most cultures found foreign until quite recently. But Europeans of the time had little chance of grasping this difference. What the Europeans did in the New World was insert themselves into a fluid power struggle which had been ongoing for millennia. Many Native American chiefs were ready to pledge allegiance to the Great ‘Chief of the English’, as a political expedient, just as various English colonies sided with this or that Native American ‘Great Chief’. Despite a few sensational cases of duplicity, most of the time, Europeans tried to buy land from Indians, just like they would buy an acre of land in England. If the local chief assented to this and liked the price, where then was the crime? Many individual Europeans believed that according to the norms of both parties, they had legal usufruct to the land they were working. To judge this as theft is therefore anachronistic.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...tolen-country/
So, again, for your accusation against Desantis to have any weight, you would have to first make the case that the land in question rightfully belonged to whoever the last tribe was that happened to conquer it prior to the arrival of European settlers.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Designates two branches of legislature with procedures for passing lawsP1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by seer View Post
Not at all, that is a fact...Bottom line Jim is that Europeans were the larger more advanced tribe.
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Originally posted by Diogenes View PostPBS vs Stanford professor:
Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-28-2022, 10:41 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Ronson View Post
Plus, sensibilities change with the times. The US also once dropped atom bombs on civilians, something that would never happen today (unless there was a cold-war ICBM exchange). The US government treated Native Americans brutally - by our standards today.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
More to the point, by the standard set forth in our nation's declaration of independence, and in the teachings of Christ.
Anyway, if Leftists want to single out the US for ridicule then so be it. But the inequity is glaring.
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