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Desantis revision of Native American history

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  • #31
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

    DeStantos is a liar pants on fire, and an arrogant white man from the perspective of the Native Americans, I wish there were a few here that could speak up for them. Nice touch you calling them the demeaning term 'Natives.'

    Basically the wars between Indian tribes were not just tribal wars. They had more respect for each other and less wars than the Europeans among themselves. We can go into it more if you wish concerning the tribal nature of the white man and Manifest Destiny, slavery and other issues of how whit man viewed other peoples of the world.

    Actually by the time the white Europeans arrived the Native Americans were mostly large regional tribal nations. There were indeed conflicts in history among the Native American Nations, but no they did not spend their time ;just' slaughtering each other.

    You and the other posters that make these demeaning baseless accusations need to back it up
    I did not say that they spent all their time just slaughtering each other. But they did in fact slaughter each other and steal each others territory. They also practiced slavery. These are facts - and if we stole land from tribe A, tribe A probably stole that land from tribe B, and tribe B from tribe C (look at the Black Hills example). If you go back far enough it is probably all stolen land. So why single out Europeans? It is more a condition of human nature.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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    • #32
      Originally posted by seer View Post

      I did not say that they spent all their time just slaughtering each other. But they did in fact slaughter each other and steal each others territory. They also practiced slavery. These are facts - and if we stole land from tribe A, tribe A probably stole that land from tribe B, and tribe B from tribe C (look at the Black Hills example). If you go back far enough it is probably all stolen land. So why single out Europeans? It is more a condition of human nature.
      I no longer have the book, but IIRC, Lewis & Clark had some interesting observations of Pacific Northwest tribes. Two of them they encountered, back to back, were like night and day. The first impressed them favorably, and later followed their group for miles just to return some shabby blankets that they had forgotten and left behind at their settlement. The next tribe they met were cutthroats. They were so untrustworthy that they camped away from their settlement and posted guards (and they were indeed attacked by them). The details in their journals convinced me that native tribes ran the gamut, as well as the individuals. To lump them all together as the OP intends to do is shortsighted.

      This is the one I used to own:
      journals.jpg

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

        I no longer have the book, but IIRC, Lewis & Clark had some interesting observations of Pacific Northwest tribes. Two of them they encountered, back to back, were like night and day. The first impressed them favorably, and later followed their group for miles just to return some shabby blankets that they had forgotten and left behind at their settlement. The next tribe they met were cutthroats. They were so untrustworthy that they camped away from their settlement and posted guards (and they were indeed attacked by them). The details in their journals convinced me that native tribes ran the gamut, as well as the individuals. To lump them all together as the OP intends to do is shortsighted.

        This is the one I used to own:
        journals.jpg
        For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

        It is utterly amazing that Native Americans behave just like other humans.



        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          I guess the question I have for you is this:

          Yes, the US is built on stolen land. Go far enough back, and pretty much ALL land is would be "stolen", so what makes the US's crime special?
          The fact that DeSantis is a liar pants on fire arrogantly trying to rewrite US history to suit his conservative view.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

            DeStantos is a liar pants on fire, and an arrogant white man from the perspective of the Native Americans, I wish there were a few here that could speak up for them. Nice touch you calling them the demeaning term 'Natives.'
            "Native Americans" is the proper term dipwad.



            Basically the wars between Indian tribes were not just tribal wars. They had more respect for each other and less wars than the Europeans among themselves. We can go into it more if you wish concerning the tribal nature of the white man and Manifest Destiny, slavery and other issues of how whit man viewed other peoples of the world.
            They didn't even have a concept of "owning land" until the Europeans came. They were mostly nomadic. Those that remained in one place didn't buy and sell land among themselves. They just lived on it.

            Actually by the time the white Europeans arrived the Native Americans were mostly large regional tribal nations. There were indeed conflicts in history among the Native American Nations, but no they did not spend their time ;just' slaughtering each other.

            You and the other posters that make these demeaning baseless accusations need to back it up
            So Shuny, have you given your stolen land and property back to the native americans? If not, why not? Don't be a hypocrite!




            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

              The fact that DeSantis is a liar pants on fire arrogantly trying to rewrite US history to suit his conservative view.
              That doesn't answer the question I asked. Try again Shuny, and this time try to provide a rational answer instead of foaming at the mouth out of hatred.

              Yes, the US is built on stolen land. Go far enough back, and pretty much ALL land is would be "stolen", so what makes the US's crime special?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                I no longer have the book, but IIRC, Lewis & Clark had some interesting observations of Pacific Northwest tribes. Two of them they encountered, back to back, were like night and day. The first impressed them favorably, and later followed their group for miles just to return some shabby blankets that they had forgotten and left behind at their settlement. The next tribe they met were cutthroats. They were so untrustworthy that they camped away from their settlement and posted guards (and they were indeed attacked by them). The details in their journals convinced me that native tribes ran the gamut, as well as the individuals. To lump them all together as the OP intends to do is shortsighted.

                This is the one I used to own:
                journals.jpg
                Well, one might call it "racist"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                  It is utterly amazing that Native Americans behave just like other humans.

                  I thought it was fascinating that the two most extreme tribes they encountered were relatively right next to each other. I mean, they lived in the same environment and were probably distantly related, so why such a huge difference? All I could figure is that the aggressive tribe may have been in direct competition with another tribe(s) for resources which forced a more combative nature. Curious sociology.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                    Well, one might call it "racist"
                    It is the Leftist playbook.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                      It is the Leftist playbook.
                      DeSantis efforts to egregiously rewrite US history at the expense of the Native Americans that their lands were not stolen is the issue, and not any so called 'leftist playbook.'

                      Liar liar pants on fire.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                        DeStantos is a liar pants on fire, and an arrogant white man from the perspective of the Native Americans, I wish there were a few here that could speak up for them. Nice touch you calling them the demeaning term 'Natives.'

                        Basically the wars between Indian tribes were not just tribal wars. They had more respect for each other and less wars than the Europeans among themselves. We can go into it more if you wish concerning the tribal nature of the white man and Manifest Destiny, slavery and other issues of how whit man viewed other peoples of the world.

                        Actually by the time the white Europeans arrived the Native Americans were mostly large regional tribal nations. There were indeed conflicts in history among the Native American Nations, but no they did not spend their time ;just' slaughtering each other.

                        You and the other posters that make these demeaning baseless accusations need to back it up
                        Sounds like you're getting your history lessons from episodes of Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                          I thought it was fascinating that the two most extreme tribes they encountered were relatively right next to each other. I mean, they lived in the same environment and were probably distantly related, so why such a huge difference? All I could figure is that the aggressive tribe may have been in direct competition with another tribe(s) for resources which forced a more combative nature. Curious sociology.
                          Some time ago, I read the autobiography of James P. Beckwourth who, according to him, lived quite a colorful life among the indian tribes. While there is some dispute about the authenticity of his tales, his journal has nevertheless come to be regarded by historians as a rich source of eyewitness knowledge about the lives and customs of Native Americans. Basically, they had little concept of private property and considered everything to be rightfully theirs for the taking, including land and resources that were being used by neighboring tribes, which led to frequent bloody conflicts.
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            Yes, the US is built on stolen land. Go far enough back, and pretty much ALL land is would be "stolen", so what makes the US's crime special?
                            For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                            For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                            Because the US existing is a crime.



                            NB: The imbedded sarcasm is intentional.
                            P1) If , then I win.

                            P2)

                            C) I win.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              The fact that DeSantis is a liar pants on fire arrogantly trying to rewrite US history to suit his conservative view.
                              And the 1619 project tells America's TRU™ history?
                              P1) If , then I win.

                              P2)

                              C) I win.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                                And the 1619 project tells America's TRU™ history?
                                No
                                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                                Frank

                                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                                Comment

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