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If Christian Nationalism Succeeded
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
Why can't you address the posts? Why the impotence?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
Ah, you're scared to answer the questions. Gotcha.Originally posted by eider View Post
I think Paul was an extremist nut. He never wrote a line about anything that Jesus said or did, save for the last meal and hours, Paul was in to Paul and his churches. There are some groups that do follow what Jesus said and did, so I hear. The Ebionites maybe? But I know nothing about them, there ain't any around here.
Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Skeat's 1995 paper "Was papyrus regarded as « cheap » or « expensive » in the ancient world?" published in Aegyptus is available and refers to Schubart's 1961 Das Buch bei den Greichen und Römern where Skeat discusses Schubart's confusion between a roll and a sheet. Skeat also points out that virtually all our evidence comes from Egypt.
P1) If , then I win.
P2)
C) I win.
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Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
Ah, you're scared to answer the questions. Gotcha.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFirst, Paul wasn't as concerned with Jesus' earthly mission as he was His heavenly promise so that's what he emphasized. His emphasis was bringing the message of the crucified Messiah and trying to keep people focused on that (keep their eyes on the prize, so to speak).
Second, his letters were to Christian converts who undoubtedly were already familiar with aspects of Jesus' life already. Paper and ink were very expensive and there's no use covering old ground.
Third, take a look at the non-Pauline epistles. You might notice that they weren't exactly replete with stories about Jesus' life or quotes either. Like Paul's letters, they were to people who were likely familiar with that so no need to waste time discussing what they already knew.
Fourth, Paul's letters usually were in response to certain situations that arose in the community. That was their focus.
Fifth, you are forced to overlook things like the opening of I Corinthians 15; Philippians 2:5 as well as all of the places that Paul dealt with many of the events in Jesus’ life such as His death, burial, resurrection, trial before Pilate, birth according to the seed of David, and the overarching fact that He took on the form of a human.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, you're rating that claim "Pants on Fire"?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
Skeat's 1995 paper "Was papyrus regarded as « cheap » or « expensive » in the ancient world?" published in Aegyptus is available and refers to Schubart's 1961 Das Buch bei den Greichen und Römern where Skeat discusses Schubart's confusion between a roll and a sheet. Skeat also points out that virtually all our evidence comes from Egypt.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSo nothing about the massive papyrus shortage during Tiberias' time that caused prices to skyrocket and put distribution under Roman government control?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but does Skeat calculate that there were about 20 sheet in a roll of papyrus? And that the price for a roll ran between 2 to 5 drachmae at that time.
Apparently a single drachmae was a day's wages for a skilled worker, and here is an article calculating comparable cost
Comparable value
Article in Wikipedia says some economists and historians say one drachma in the 5th century (let me do a mental calculation – – that would be from about 499BC to 401BC) was about US$25 in 1990 or US$46.50 in 2015.
Classical historians give a different read for the 5th and 4th centuries (okay, mental math time, so that would be from around 499BC to 301BC, the 400s and 300s). In that time, one drachma would be around one days wages for a skilled worker or a hoplite. So that would not be minimum wage, but more along the line of a carpenter or mason.
Some historians say that half a drachma per day would be a comfortable subsistence for a poor family. That would be about 182.5 drachmas for a year for poor people.
The rough valuation of one drachma based on the Wikipedia article are:- one day wages for skilled worker
- US$25 in 1990
- two days subsistence living standard for poor family
On the other hand, Professor Frank Holt provides a rough comparability of two drachmae being equal to about one days wages for a skilled worker. Here are two data points:- At Kindle location 1782 the comment says Alexander capped the cost of a banquet at 10,000 drachmas which is 5,000 days pay for a skilled Greek construction worker.
- Location 1797 says guests at a banquet could eat 160 drachma of food which was 80 days pay for a mercenary of the day.
So that gives a valuation of 2 drachmaes equaling a days pay for a skill construction worker or hired military soldier. I’m comfortable using an additional comparison of half a drachma as poor living for a poor family.
$25 in 1990 would be $57 today.
No matter how you slice it, a sheet of papyrus was not cheap and not to be squandered unnecessarily by anyone but the rich.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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I did have a serious point to linking to that book blurb.
If an organization identifying as Christian nationalist did succeed in reaching power, average evangelicals may not like the result. They'd not be the ones agitating for such power so the fact that evangelicals don't all agree on certain political issues would be of little import. So I have to end up disagreeing with what I posted much earlier in the thread."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI did have a serious point to linking to that book blurb.
If an organization identifying as Christian nationalist did succeed in reaching power, average evangelicals may not like the result. They'd not be the ones agitating for such power so the fact that evangelicals don't all agree on certain political issues would be of little import. So I have to end up disagreeing with what I posted much earlier in the thread.
(thinking out loud)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View PostMy remark was with regard to the man who founded Christianity as a new cult. To believe what Jesus of Nazareth believed would require converting to Judaism. The Ebionites are thought to have been a link with those followers of a real Galilean Jew and they certainly had no time for Paul. They were also persecuted by the early Christian church.
Paul wasn't interested in Jesus. Didn't write anything about his real mission at all.
And 'yes', Jesus definitely wanted the old laws put back in place...... I think the Priests had ignored such as the poor laws for a long time.
I'm sad that there isn't more knowledge about the Ebionites, I guess that most of it got trashed by the new churches.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostFirst, Paul wasn't as concerned with Jesus' earthly mission as he was His heavenly promise so that's what he emphasized. His emphasis was bringing the message of the crucified Messiah and trying to keep people focused on that (keep their eyes on the prize, so to speak).
Second, his letters were to Christian converts who undoubtedly were already familiar with aspects of Jesus' life already. Paper and ink were very expensive and there's no use covering old ground.
Third, take a look at the non-Pauline epistles. You might notice that they weren't exactly replete with stories about Jesus' life or quotes either. Like Paul's letters, they were to people who were likely familiar with that so no need to waste time discussing what they already knew.
Fourth, Paul's letters usually were in response to certain situations that arose in the community. That was their focus.
But that suggests that he had no interest in conversion at all......... interesting.
Fifth, you are forced to overlook things like the opening of I Corinthians 15; Philippians 2:5 as well as all of the places that Paul dealt with many of the events in Jesus’ life such as His death, burial, resurrection, trial before Pilate, birth according to the seed of David, and the overarching fact that He took on the form of a human.
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