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You don't know Jack

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  • You don't know Jack

    But it won't matter to the crowd that swift-boated lifelong Republican Bob Mueller, the most respected law enforcement officer in America on both sides of the aisle for no better reason than because he investigated TFG.

    It won't matter to the crowd that swift-boated Anthony Fauci, the most respected public health official in America for no better reason than because he contradicted TFG, for cause — because TFG was not merely wrong, but wrong in a way that endangered public health in America that was ultimately responsible for an anti-vaxx movement that is even today killing off 300 Americans a day, nearly all of whom are unvaccinated.

    Ironically, nearly all of whom are also their political co-belligerants.


    I am a political moderate, registered Independent since the 80s.

    I was raised a member of the party of Lincoln before giving up my registration when it became the party of Reagan. I judge parties by their adherence and respect for scientifically objective facts from the global warming to the theory of evolution. When scientific evidence moves against a previously held position, so do I. Necessarily, this puts me in opposition to the mainstream Republican party, but not to all Republicans. This puts me in opposition to some Democrats, but not to the mainstream Democratic party.


    I am not a liberal.
    .
    I will consider any accusation to the contrary on this thread to be deliberate dishonesty, or alternatively an unsubstantiated accusation of dishonesty on my part and respond by calling it out as such with a request to leave this thread, and if necessary a request I will escalate to the moderation team.


    This thread is about Jack Smith, the recently appointed Special Counsel, who he actually is, and who he is about to be swift-boated into becoming. Arguments in favor or in opposition to any of these positions are welcome, and more so if they come with third-party links that can serve to prevent ... arguments attacking the messengers, most especially if they are participants in this thread.

    Such arguments are not welcome here. Posters violating this principle will be asked to leave the thread.

  • #2
    Let's talk about Jack.

    Mr. Smith Goes to Washington
    .
    ...

    All of which raises the question: Who the heck is Jack Smith that the indictment of Donald Trump should be up to him?

    Despite his common name, Smith might have one of the most uncommon professional backgrounds of anyone at the department. A 1994 Harvard Law School graduate, Smith spent the first fourteen years of his career as a U.S.-based prosecutor, first as an assistant district attorney in New York and then as an assistant U.S. attorney in the eastern district of New York. In 2008, Smith joined the International Criminal Court (ICC), where he served as an investigation coordinator with the Office of the Prosecutor and worked on various investigations of foreign government officials on matters ranging from war crimes to genocide.

    Smith returned to the Justice Department in 2010 to serve as the head of the department’s Public Integrity Section, which focuses on the criminal prosecution of public officials for corruption and other offenses. During his time there, the Section pursued several high-profile prosecutions, including the prosecutions of former CIA officer Jeff Sterling for leaking classified information and obstructing justice, former Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell for honest services fraud (a conviction later overturned by the Supreme Court), and former Rep. Rick Renzi for bribery and extortion. Smith left the section in 2015 to join the U.S. attorney’s office for the middle district of Tennessee as its first assistant U.S. attorney and ultimately served as its acting U.S. attorney as well.

    Smith left that role in 2017 and spent a year as an executive at a healthcare provider before choosing to go back overseas. In September 2018, he joined the Kosovo Specialist Chambers in the Hague as its second specialist prosecutor. A specialized international criminal body set up by the European Union and Kosovar authorities, the Special Chambers is responsible for investigating and prosecuting war crimes and crimes against humanity in Kosovo under Kosovar law. Smith remained in that position until his appointment as special counsel, at which point he resigned.

    Smith’s appointment puts an experienced prosecutor at the helm of the investigations into former President Trump, and a number of former Justice Department officials have voiced support for Garland’s choice. Perhaps more importantly, during his time in the Public Integrity Section, Smith gained substantial experience investigating and prosecuting both high-ranking former officials and crimes relating to the mishandling of classified information, two areas that overlap in relation to the Mar-a-Lago investigation and other investigations that the special counsel will be heading.

    And while it’s unlikely that Trump will face any charges for war crimes, Smith’s experience with such investigations—which often involve former high-ranking officials, complex claims of immunity, and substantial public scrutiny—is far from irrelevant. No doubt some supporters of Trump will attempt to use Smith’s leadership role during the Obama administration and relationship with the ICC and related bodies—towards whom Trump was notoriously hostile while in office—as the basis for some claim of bias. (Notably, Politico reports that Smith is registered to vote as an independent.) But Smith’s record seems to show that he is above all else a serious and credible investigator and prosecutor whose experience makes him well-suited to the unique challenges of the special counsel role.

    ...

    The quality of sources used is also suitable for discussion here.

    The above is from the Lawfare Blog, the pre-eminent source for measured commentary on the intersection between politics and the law.
    .
    Welcome to Lawfare, a new blog by Robert Chesney, Jack Goldsmith, and myself. For those readers familiar with our prior writings, our subject will come as no surprise: We mean to devote this blog to that nebulous zone in which actions taken or contemplated to protect the nation interact with the nation’s laws and legal institutions. We will, I am sure, construe this subject broadly to include subjects as far-flung as cybersecurity, Guantánamo habeas litigation, targeted killing, biosecurity, universal jurisdiction, the Alien Tort Statute, the state secrets privilege and countless other related and not-so-related matters. . . .

    The name Lawfare refers both to the use of law as a weapon of conflict and, perhaps more importantly, to the depressing reality that America remains at war with itself over the law governing its warfare with others. This latter sense of the word—which is admittedly not its normal usage—binds together a great deal of our work over the years. It is our hope to provide an ongoing commentary on America’s lawfare, even as we participate in many of its skirmishes.

    Lawfare's contributors include former high ranking members of the Justice Department, US attorneys ... and if history is a guide, future appointees to both. Lisa Monaco, the DAG who appeared next to Garland at his announcement of a special counsel, left the Lawfare Blog when she accepted the appointment. Its founder, Benjamin Wittes, is a Senior Fellow at the non-partisan Brookings Institution. From the wiki ....
    .
    The University of Pennsylvania's Global Go To Think Tank Index Report has named Brookings "Think Tank of the Year" and "Top Think Tank in the World" every year since 2008.[16]The Economist describes Brookings as "perhaps America’s most prestigious think-tank."[17]




    Comment


    • #3
      Odd that in the adoring review of Smith provided by the AP they felt it necessary to skip over his involvement with Lois Learner in her attempt to weaponize the IRS to suppress Tea Party and conservative groups[1] -- something that Lawfare apparently conveniently leaves out of their glowing endorsement as well. Can't have those inconvenient facts of a history of going after conservatives muddy the waters can we?

      AP even quotes Lanny Breuer, an Assistant DA in the DOJ under Obama as saying that Smith "is an exquisite lawyer and an exquisite prosecutor ... [who's] not political at all. He’s straight down the middle." 'scuse me if I don't take the word of someone who was up to his neck in the Operation Fast and Furious coverup about who is and who isn't is "not political at all" and plays it "straight down the middle," particularly considering Smith's record of trying to shut down conservative groups.


      As an aside, some of the most liberal and conservative people I know insist that they're moderates. Actions, not self-descriptions are what counts here.


      1. according to government documents he might very well have been the one who pushed the IRS to go after them
      Last edited by rogue06; 11-23-2022, 08:55 AM.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Jack Smith is being given the same treatment as Dirty Cop Mueller, where the pundits praised him as eminently qualified and pure as the driven snow, but those who did a deep dive into Mueller's background found a different story. We're finding much the same with Smith who has been pegged as being at the forefront of Obama's illegal targeting of conservative groups by the IRS. Who knows what other unsavory details will be found as folks continue to investigate.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't know Jack.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
            ... responsible for an anti-vaxx movement that is even today killing off 300 Americans a day, nearly all of whom are unvaccinated ...
            Slightly off topic, but necessary as it was addressed in the o/p ...

            Clarification based on today's reporting:

            Vaccinated people now make up a majority of covid deaths
            .
            For the first time, a majority of Americans dying from the coronavirus received at least the primary series of the vaccine.

            Fifty-eight percent of coronavirus deaths in August were people who were vaccinated or boosted, according to an analysis conducted for The Health 202 by Cynthia Cox, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation.

            It’s a continuation of a troubling trend that has emerged over the past year. As vaccination rates have increased and new variants appeared, the share of deaths of people who were vaccinated has been steadily rising. In September 2021, vaccinated people made up just 23 percent of coronavirus fatalities. In January and February this year, it was up to 42 percent, per our colleagues Fenit Nirappil and Dan Keating.

            “We can no longer say this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated,” Cox told The Health 202.

            Being unvaccinated is still a major risk factor for dying from covid-19. But efficacy wanes over time, and an analysis out last week from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention highlights the need to get regular booster shots to keep one’s risk of death from the coronavirus low, especially for the elderly.

            Anthony Fauci, the nation’s preeminent infectious-disease expert, used his last White House briefing yesterday ahead of his December retirement to urge Americans to get the recently authorized omicron-specific boosters.

            “The final message I give you from this podium is that please, for your own safety, for that of your family, get your updated covid-19 shot as soon as you’re eligible,” he said.

            Per today's reporting and Fauci's final press conference, 58 percent of new deaths are among the 68 percent of Americans who have been vaccinated in line with their decreased risk. The vaccinated and un-boosted are at slightly higher risk than the vaccinated and boosted, while the unvaccinated are at a substantially higher risk.

            In light of these numbers, I urge everyone who has not been vaccinated against Covid to get their jabs, and everyone who has been vaccinated to get their boosters.

            Comment


            • One Bad Pig
              One Bad Pig commented
              Editing a comment
              Update appreciated.

          • #7
            "We can no longer say this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated," but get your clot shot anyway.

            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              It won't matter to the crowd that swift-boated Anthony Fauci, the most respected public health official in America for no better reason than because he contradicted TFG, for cause — because TFG was not merely wrong, but wrong in a way that endangered public health in America that was ultimately responsible for an anti-vaxx movement that is even today killing off 300 Americans a day, nearly all of whom are unvaccinated.
              Last I checked, Trump was a yuge PROponent of the vaccines; he helped push through their development, and has been jabbed himself. Perhaps you can point to a change of heart somewhere; I don't exactly keep abreast of Trump's pronouncements.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Last I checked, Trump was a yuge PROponent of the vaccines; he helped push through their development, and has been jabbed himself. Perhaps you can point to a change of heart somewhere; I don't exactly keep abreast of Trump's pronouncements.
                Last I heard was that Trump occasionally got booed at his rallies when he would tell people to get vaxxed. He was very proud of Operation Warp Speed. But as Covid cases subsided and treatments improved, AFAICT it sorta became a non-issue which he no longer brings up

                Maybe the problem stems from confusing Trump's supporting vaccines with his opposing mandates (Trump again publicly defends COVID-19 vaccines, but slams mandates).

                Or maybe it's what happens when you get your information from far left sources.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #10
                  I know many men called Jack.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    I know many men called Jack.
                    thumb_jack-not-name-jack-job-animal-muppet-memes-51380732.png
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Odd that in the adoring review of Smith provided by the AP they felt it necessary to skip over his involvement with Lois Learner in her attempt to weaponize the IRS to suppress Tea Party and conservative groups[1] -- something that Lawfare apparently conveniently leaves out of their glowing endorsement as well. Can't have those inconvenient facts of a history of going after conservatives muddy the waters can we?

                      AP even quotes Lanny Breuer, an Assistant DA in the DOJ under Obama as saying that Smith "is an exquisite lawyer and an exquisite prosecutor ... [who's] not political at all. He’s straight down the middle." 'scuse me if I don't take the word of someone who was up to his neck in the Operation Fast and Furious coverup about who is and who isn't is "not political at all" and plays it "straight down the middle," particularly considering Smith's record of trying to shut down conservative groups.


                      As an aside, some of the most liberal and conservative people I know insist that they're moderates. Actions, not self-descriptions are what counts here.


                      1. according to government documents he might very well have been the one who pushed the IRS to go after them
                      The criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active non-profits isn't such a bad idea in and of itself, even if done by the IRS, given that it does involve whether they should or should not pay taxes.

                      They screwed up in determining which groups fit that description, but I don't see any reason to hold Jack Smith responsible for that.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Last I heard was that Trump occasionally got booed at his rallies when he would tell people to get vaxxed. He was very proud of Operation Warp Speed. But as Covid cases subsided and treatments improved, AFAICT it sorta became a non-issue which he no longer brings up

                        Maybe the problem stems from confusing Trump's supporting vaccines with his opposing mandates (Trump again publicly defends COVID-19 vaccines, but slams mandates).

                        Or maybe it's what happens when you get your information from far left sources.
                        Or possibly he's confusing the anti-vaxx sentiment that initially came from the democrats like Kamala. And he's created a completely different reality in his head about Trump who was always pro-jab and never wavered from that position.
                        "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          The criminal enforcement of campaign-finance laws against politically active non-profits isn't such a bad idea in and of itself, even if done by the IRS, given that it does involve whether they should or should not pay taxes.

                          They screwed up in determining which groups fit that description, but I don't see any reason to hold Jack Smith responsible for that.
                          Funny how they consistently "screwed up" and targeted conservative groups almost exclusively.

                          And of course you don't think Jack Smith who led the charge should be held responsible. I wouldn't expect you to say anything else.

                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            I know many men called Jack.
                            Would that include a Mr. Squat?



                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment

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