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Colorado Springs LGBT Nightclub Shooting; At Least 5 Dead, 18 Injured

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Until you mentioned it and I looked I just assumed all ambulances were white.




    All TRUE ambulances are white.
    P1) If , then I win.

    P2)

    C) I win.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

      Perhaps that's a stereotype in someone's bubble on another planet. I've had many encounters with US police and not once did they come across as "super-cowards." I ran into several bullies but never cowards.
      Maybe that's what he's trying to say -- that the "bullies" act that way because he thinks inwardly they're cowards?

      But, yeah, the most common accusation against cops was that they were too aggressive, which is opposite of what happened at Uvalde.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

        All TRUE ambulances are white.
        All of ours are red.

        But, then again, they're "Mobile Intensive Care Units", so maybe they're not TRUE ambulances.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          I never used the word mockery. You introduced that.

          It is believed to be a reality by many.

          That would depend on the individual and the nature of the sin[s].
          Me thinks you're being intentionally obtuse.
          P1) If , then I win.

          P2)

          C) I win.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

            Me thinks you're being intentionally obtuse.
            I never can figure out if she's really that bad at logic, or this is just her mode in hypergear.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Yeah, I'd agree.
              For one thing, enough time was allowed to weigh all of the options. It is the more quick-reaction scenarios that are problematic.

              In my early days of police academy, it was demonstrated over and over "you SAY you would react this way" - then an actual simulated event, and you find out you reacted totally differently.
              Back to training and 'drilling'.....
              Only after proper training and practice do you come close to "doing the right thing" every time.

              I think this was why the MAJOR screwup in Uvalde --- cops are trained to respect the chain of command. The guy "at the top" was the school police chief who (Gondy blasts me for saying this) wasn't a "real cop" -- he was a paper pusher, a wanna-be real police chief, a "garet trooper" type. He is responsible for the bulk of the screwup.

              Then, the officers who also failed miserably - they apparently never drilled using the Columbine protocol where "chain of command" goes out the window, and your sole mission is to advance to the shooter and neutralize him, disregarding injuries or other challenges along the way - and NOT waiting for backup. Most police departments with which I am familiar drill that way -- in a school shooting, chain of command is ignored, and the "first guy on the scene" is solely tasked with seek and destroy.
              I think part of the complaint is that because there was plenty of time involved, that one or more officers should have broken training conditioning. But I don't know and I'm not going to judge them. I wasn't there to hear what they might have been saying, or what they understood the situation to be.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                Well, so much for that narrative...
                Where is our apology from the leftists on this board? FF?
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • Originally posted by seer View Post

                  Where is our apology from the leftists on this board? FF?
                  You make a joke!
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Source: Colorado veteran who tackled gunman at LGBTQ club describes risking his life to save his family


                    “I’m not a hero, I’m just some dude,” Richard Fierro said.

                    A decorated army veteran who tackled the shooter who killed five in a Colorado Springs gay club said he wanted to protect the close knit community inside the room.

                    Richard Fierro, 45, was at Club Q celebrating a birthday with his wife, their daughter and her friends when he found himself one of two people who subdued the attacker armed with an AR-15 style rifle and wearing a flak vest.

                    “I just know I got into mode, and I needed to save my family — and my family was at that time everybody in that room,” he said in a news conference outside his home on Monday.

                    “That's what I was trained to do. I saw him and I went and got him... I tried to save people and it didn’t work out for five. There’s five people who aren’t home right now."



                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Heroes often don't consider what they did particularly heroic.
                    WARNING: Contains masked vulgarity

                    Source: Toxic Masculinity Takes Out Gay Nightclub Assailant


                    A retired Army veteran did what came naturally to him, and in doing so saved countless lives.

                    A Saturday night massacre at a bar in Colorado Springs left five dead and at least 25 wounded, but it would’ve been immeasurably more bloody had it not been for a retired U.S. Army officer and the “toxic” masculinity that drove him to action.

                    Rich Fierro, who served three tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan, rushed and tackled the 22-year-old assailant who opened fire inside a gay nightclub called Club Q, telling reporters that he tried to use the attacker’s own pistol to “finish him.”

                    “It’s the reflex,” said Fierro to the assembled media outside his home on Monday. “Go! Go to the fire. Stop the action. Stop the activity. Don’t let no one get hurt. I tried to bring everybody back.” As Fox News reports:

                    Fierro could smell the cordite from the ammunition, saw the flashes and dove, pushing one of his friends down before falling backwards.

                    Looking up from the floor, Fierro saw the shooter’s body armor and the crowd that had fled to the club’s patio. Moving toward the attacker, Fierro grasped the body armor, yanked the shooter down while yelling at another patron, James, to move the rifle out of reach.

                    As the shooter was pinned under a barrage of punches from Fierro and kicks to the head from James, he tried to reach for his pistol. Fierro grabbed it and used it as a bludgeon.


                    Fierro’s wife, Jess, said on the Facebook page of their family business, a local brewery, that her husband had bruised his right side and injured his hands, knees, and ankle. “He was covered in blood,” she wrote.

                    The disturbed assailant was already known to local law enforcement for an incident in June 2021. At that time, he was arrested for a bomb threat that led to a standoff with law enforcement at his mother’s home. In addition, the killer “identifies” as non-binary and uses they/them pronouns according to his lawyers. Beyond the Left’s boilerplate anti-2A rhetoric, there are and should be reasonable grounds for removing firearms. Here, it appears, was one such case.

                    None of this, however, stopped the shameless opportunists on the Left from immediately blaming Donald Trump and his fellow Republicans. “After Trump elevated anti-immigrant & anti-Latino rhetoric,” tweeted Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, “we had the deadliest anti-Latino shooting in modern history. After anti-Asian hate w/COVID, Atlanta. Tree of life. Emanuel AME. Buffalo. And now after an anti-LGBT+ campaign, Colorado Springs. Connect the dots, @GOP.”

                    We have no idea what drove the assailant to commit mayhem and murder — nor does a narcissistic leftist congresswoman from Queens — but we suspect it had a lot more to do with emotional imbalance and individual brokenness than it did Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis. Unless there’s a growing community of non-binary they/them ultra-MAGA types we’re not aware of.

                    Fierro had been at the club with his daughter Kassy, her boyfriend, and several others to see a drag show and celebrate a birthday. His daughter’s boyfriend, Raymond Green Vance, was among those fatally shot.

                    Somehow, we suspect he wasn’t thinking, Damn those Republican lawmakers! when he sprang into action, but many of those there that night were spared because he did. “Honestly, I don’t care about myself in that moment,” he said. “I cared about everybody that was around me and I cared especially about my family.”

                    “As soon as I got done with that guy and the cop came in, I went across the room and started first aid with my friend who was shot in the chest and the legs in the arms.”

                    As Task and Purpose reports: Fierro entered the Army as a field artillery officer in 1999, deploying to Iraq from November 2003 to February 2004, January 2006 to December 2006, September 2008 to August 2009, and then to Afghanistan from April 2011 to April 2012 before leaving the service as a major in 2013. During that time he received numerous awards, including the Combat Action Badge and two Bronze Stars, according to his service record.“

                    The father and husband said he relied on his combat training to respond to the situation. "I don’t know exactly what I did, I just went into combat mode,” Fierro said. “I just know I have to kill this guy before he kills us.”

                    “I told him while I was hitting him, I said ‘I’m going to f***ing kill you, man, because you tried to kill my friends.’ My family was in there. My little girl was in there,” he said.

                    Fierro isn’t the first man to act courageously and aggressively to save the lives of others. In fact, he’s emblematic of traditional manhood and masculinity and military training. And for that, the surviving patrons of Club Q — and their friends and families — can be thankful.



                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    Comments:

                    1. The dingbat pushed the myth the Atlanta spa shootings were racially motivated and memory holes the Orlando Pulse Club massacre to try to make her point -- which was that the shooter, who identifies himself as non-binary and who's preferred personal pronoun is "Mx," is a Republican.

                    B) TWO Bronze Stars. Color me impressed. He's been a hero for awhile.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                      All TRUE ambulances are white.
                      giphy (1).gif
                      Gotta get me brudda a shirt just like that.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                        For one thing, enough time was allowed to weigh all of the options. It is the more quick-reaction scenarios that are problematic.
                        In the case of the "let's roll" - this was a brand new scenario, not having been encountered before, so there was no protocol, formal or informal.
                        They improvised, and are heroes.

                        I think part of the complaint is that because there was plenty of time involved, that one or more officers should have broken training conditioning.
                        The "training condition" they followed no longer existed for school shootings.

                        But I don't know and I'm not going to judge them. I wasn't there to hear what they might have been saying, or what they understood the situation to be.
                        But that's the point - ever since Columbine, the universal protocol for training in school shootings situations was drastically changed.
                        Prior, it had been - wait for backup, form up in a "diamond formation", enter as a team to "clear" the building as you progress.
                        After columbine, the protocol was drastically changed to "forget chain of command, forget waiting for backup --- first man on the scene make a beeline to the shooter...."

                        This "school police chief" should have been well aware of that protocol. No excuse. Columbine was two and a half decades ago.
                        There is no record that any training had ever been conducted by that school police department or the local department.

                        What really surprised me was that the DPS officers didn't override the chain of command. That truly amazed me.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                          In the case of the "let's roll" - this was a brand new scenario, not having been encountered before, so there was no protocol, formal or informal.
                          They improvised, and are heroes.



                          The "training condition" they followed no longer existed for school shootings.



                          But that's the point - ever since Columbine, the universal protocol for training in school shootings situations was drastically changed.
                          Prior, it had been - wait for backup, form up in a "diamond formation", enter as a team to "clear" the building as you progress.
                          After columbine, the protocol was drastically changed to "forget chain of command, forget waiting for backup --- first man on the scene make a beeline to the shooter...."

                          This "school police chief" should have been well aware of that protocol. No excuse. Columbine was two and a half decades ago.
                          There is no record that any training had ever been conducted by that school police department or the local department.

                          What really surprised me was that the DPS officers didn't override the chain of command. That truly amazed me.
                          And it isn't like there hasn't been any school shootings since Columbine so that lesson keeps getting reinforced, but something went very, very wrong in Uvalde.

                          But then again, the police pretty much botched the Parkland school shooting only a few years earlier so maybe we shouldn't be all that surprised.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            And it isn't like there hasn't been any school shootings since Columbine so that lesson keeps getting reinforced, but something went very, very wrong in Uvalde.

                            But then again, the police pretty much botched the Parkland school shooting only a few years earlier so maybe we shouldn't be all that surprised.
                            Not enough actual training. And there was all kinds of federal money for it.

                            Our PD (and others in our County) drill for this at least twice a year. Actually take over a local junior high or high school after hours and run through the entire scenario.

                            One of the reasons they're doing it so purposefully twice a year is because it's so different from what they had trained for previously.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              In the case of the "let's roll" - this was a brand new scenario, not having been encountered before, so there was no protocol, formal or informal.
                              They improvised, and are heroes.
                              That's fine. Again, I am unclear what their motivations were but I'll accept that they primarily wanted to save the lives of the hijacker's target.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Not enough actual training. And there was all kinds of federal money for it.

                                Our PD (and others in our County) drill for this at least twice a year. Actually take over a local junior high or high school after hours and run through the entire scenario.

                                One of the reasons they're doing it so purposefully twice a year is because it's so different from what they had trained for previously.
                                Trying to instill the mentality that Fierro demonstrated:

                                “It’s the reflex,” said Fierro to the assembled media outside his home on Monday. “Go! Go to the fire. Stop the action. Stop the activity. Don’t let no one get hurt. I tried to bring everybody back.”


                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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