A previous poster made the rather absurd Putin apologist claim that the 'Ukrainians were 'caught' between the Russian and Ukrainian.' The reality was starkly different when the Ukrainian army entered Kherson the enthusiastic cheers of Ukrainian citizens, and discovered the horrific nightmares of Russian occupation.
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What did the Ukrainian army find when the liberated Kherson?
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What did the Ukrainian army find when the liberated Kherson?
Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-19-2022, 08:17 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil. -
What did the Russians do when they left Kherson?
They destroyed all the utilities with winter approaching. This is an attack on the civilians, and not military targets as with the attempts to destroy the Utilities in many Ukraine cities..Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostWhat did the Russians do when they left Kherson?
They destroyed all the utilities with winter approaching. This is an attack on the civilians, and not military targets as with the attempts to destroy the Utilities in many Ukraine cities..
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostRussian war strategy involves using winter as a weapon. It has been this way for hundreds of years. That isn't excusing it but just pointing out that it should be expected.
It will be the civilian population that will suffer disproportionately to the destruction of utilities in the cities.
Do you consider the position of Ukraine and Russia equal at fault and war crimes as some have asserted?Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-19-2022, 01:28 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostRussian war strategy involves using winter as a weapon. It has been this way for hundreds of years. That isn't excusing it but just pointing out that it should be expected.
- 1 like
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Yes, the winter has been a weapon throughout history. You may ask Napoleon, The Ukraine Army has not been dependent on local untiities throughout their liberation of Russian occupied Ukraine. It will be the Russian army that will suffer the most in the winter, because of long supply lines and distance from Russia. The primary reason they abandoned Kherson was supply line issues of the river barrier to supply, and of course the long torturous frontline east of the river was not defendable.
It will be the civilian population that will suffer disproportionately to the destruction of utilities in the cities.
Do you consider the position of Ukraine and Russia equal at fault and war crimes as some have asserted?
That is not to excuse it.
Personally, I don't think the Russians even consider the effect on civilians when they start waging a scorched earth policy, limited or in full. It appears that they assume any opponent will respond like they will -- simply seize all available working utilities for their needs and screw everyone else. These things are seen as military assets and nothing more.
IOW, in their minds, the civilians will lose everything regardless. Whether they (the Russian military) destroys it or the opposing army take it, doesn't matter. Either way the civilians wont have or benefit from it. Thus, under that reasoning, it is best to destroy it and keep it out of enemy hands.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
Do you consider the position of Ukraine and Russia equal at fault and war crimes as some have asserted?
*assuming there is no real and immediate threat.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Where there is a war, there are war crimes. The invader gets to choose whether there will be war* and its associated crimes. The invaded doesn't. Ergo: the invader gets the blame for its own crimes and half the blame for those of the invaded.
*assuming there is no real and immediate threat.
Yes, war crimes were committed by both sides is clearly and specifically acknowledged in previous threads, Please review the evidence concerning disproportionate high rate of war crimes committed by Russia when compared to the Ukrainian army. For example mass graves of tortured and executed civilians have been found in the cities liberated by Ukrainians. The reference concerning war crimes described in detail the torture chambers and still missing civilians not found yet. No such mass graves and torture chambers have been remotely attributed to Ukrainians. Also the Russians have executed and tortured more prisoners of war far greater than anything the Ukrainians have,
Also an untold number of children have been kidnapped and taken to Russia.
It you dispute this please provide references that document any sort of equivalence of war crimes of Russians versus Ukrainians. I can and will cite more references that document my view.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm just saying that the Russians see winter as an ally and weapon and "use" it that way, so this (destroying city infrastructure and the like) is not to be unexpected.
That is not to excuse it.
Personally, I don't think the Russians even consider the effect on civilians when they start waging a scorched earth policy, limited or in full. It appears that they assume any opponent will respond like they will -- simply seize all available working utilities for their needs and screw everyone else. These things are seen as military assets and nothing more.
IOW, in their minds, the civilians will lose everything regardless. Whether they (the Russian military) destroys it or the opposing army take it, doesn't matter. Either way the civilians wont have or benefit from it. Thus, under that reasoning, it is best to destroy it and keep it out of enemy hands.
Still waiting for documented references to support your bald assertions.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by shunyadragon View Postt
Yes, war crimes were committed by both sides is clearly and specifically acknowledged in previous threads, Please review the evidence concerning disproportionate high rate of war crimes committed by Russia when compared to the Ukrainian army. For example mass graves of tortured and executed civilians have been found in the cities liberated by Ukrainians. The reference concerning war crimes described in detail the torture chambers and still missing civilians not found yet. No such mass graves and torture chambers have been remotely attributed to Ukrainians. Also the Russians have executed and tortured more prisoners of war far greater than anything the Ukrainians have,
Also an untold number of children have been kidnapped and taken to Russia.
It you dispute this please provide references that document any sort of equivalence of war crimes of Russians versus Ukrainians. I can and will cite more references that document my view.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
There is no evidence that the Ukrainians have selectively targeted non-military targets in the manner the Russians have. As previously cited the Russians have given a great priority of civilian targets such as schools, shopping centers, hospitals, and apartment buildings. As in the made assertions in the previous thread you have presented no evidence that the Ukrainians have given this overwhelming priority of civilian targets.
Still waiting for documented references to support your bald assertions.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThat would be due to the fact that the war is being fought in Ukraine. If Ukraine was the one with the bigger army and invaded Russia I'm not sure that their military philosophy would be any different if they were in the same position that Russia is currently in.
Still waiting for documented references to support your bald assertions.
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by tabibito View Post
I addressed the your immediate question. Please point out the points in my post that address the other issues that you make mention of here.
Still waiting for documented references concerning the immediate question.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSo in shuny-land it isn't a fact that the war is being waged in Ukraine?
That would be due to the fact that the war is being fought in Ukraine. If Ukraine was the one with the bigger army and invaded Russia I'm not sure that their military philosophy would be any different if they were in the same position that Russia is currently in.
Have you become a full-blown Putin apologist?
You have refused to answer the 'immediate question' of this thread and the previous thread: Do you acknowledge the extreme disproportionate war crimes committed by Putin's Russian army?Last edited by shunyadragon; 11-20-2022, 09:32 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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