Trump and North Korea

[Ronson]

Just keeping this comment out of Sparko's thread ...

Trump never suggested Kim was an ally. He met with Kim to ratchet down tensions, not dissimilar to the détente meetings of US presidents and Soviet leaders.

And things did cool down for a while, until Buffoon Biden got into the White House. Now Kim is firing missiles again.

[seanD]

You know how warmongering the TDS left has become when their views on foreign policy perfectly match with neoconservatives. It's an amazing thing to watch.

[NorrinRadd]

Little Rocket Man had an opportunity to eventually become a friend and possibly a sort of client state. Pompeo made nice presentations of the benefits of being on our good side, rather than being a thorn in our butt-flesh. But, IIRC, Mustache Man shot off his mouth about the goal (meaning HIS goal) was to Khadaficize Kim.

[rogue06]

Little Rocket Man had an opportunity to eventually become a friend and possibly a sort of client state. Pompeo made nice presentations of the benefits of being on our good side, rather than being a thorn in our butt-flesh. But, IIRC, Mustache Man shot off his mouth about the goal (meaning HIS goal) was to Khadaficize Kim.

Gaddafi ended up doing everything the west demanded including turning over his WMD program and was rewarded by the west helping a coup against him. An abject lesson for all dictators that were even toying with the notion of reforming.

[Mountain Man]

Trump's overtures to North Korea were also part of his broader international policy to economically and politically isolate China. By befriending Kim, it removed one of the clubs Xi was using to threaten the rest of the world and keep other nations off balance. Trump took that away, and it changed the balance of the world dramatically.

[Ronson]

You know how warmongering the TDS left has become when their views on foreign policy perfectly match with neoconservatives. It's an amazing thing to watch.

One thing the Leftoids and the media get all goosepimply about is public condemnation. I guess it is one variety of their virtue signaling.

But it is extremely counterproductive - if not down right dangerous - to publicly humiliate an adversary. Especially one that might be somewhat unhinged and has nuclear capabilities. Just another reason these idiots running the show right now have us on the brink of a nuclear war.

[rogue06]

Trump's overtures to North Korea were also part of his broader international policy to economically and politically isolate China. By befriending Kim, it removed one of the clubs Xi was using to threaten the rest of the world and keep other nations off balance. Trump took that away, and it changed the balance of the world dramatically.

I don't know if he was as successful as you portray, but what was a real eye-opener is how when the overtures were first starting, on the Netflix program "The Break with Michelle Wolf," the hostess asked her audience the question "Are You Sort Of Hoping We Don't Get Peace With North Korea So You Wouldn't Have To Give Trump Credit?"

71% said "yes." They would rather have any chance of peace between us as North Korea not happen if it meant Trump would get credit.

[Sparko]

Just keeping this comment out of Sparko's thread ...

Trump never suggested Kim was an ally. He met with Kim to ratchet down tensions, not dissimilar to the détente meetings of US presidents and Soviet leaders.

And things did cool down for a while, until Buffoon Biden got into the White House. Now Kim is firing missiles again.

Thanks. I just didn't want my thread derailed into another Trump argument.

I think Trump did a fairly good job of de-escalating things with NK by meeting with Kim and being friendly. That's just diplomacy.
He gave Kim a way out of the rhetoric that he was ramping up.

[shunyadragon]

The reality and goals of Kim and North Korea never changed. Kim used Trump in an effort to gain international credibility, which in the long run the tiger never changes its strips. From the North Korean perspective the West and South Korea was, is and always will be enemies. The development of offensive missile weapons has always been Kim's goal, no change.

[Ronson]

The reality and goals of Kim and North Korea never changed. Kim used Trump in an effort to gain international credibility, which in the long run the tiger never changes its strips.

The "credibility" mantra is really old and, frankly, dumb. It is used by warmongering neocons and Leftoids alike. One might say they don't want to give credibility to the leader of a coup that just occurred, especially if there is still a resistance going on that might topple it. That would hurt the chances of a rebellion. But the NK regime has been in place for more than 70 years and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. To say "I don't want to give them credibility" is just plain stupid. We recognized the Soviet government, giving them credibility for about the same length of time.

From the North Korean perspective the West and South Korea was, is and always will be enemies.

I find that difficult to believe. One could have said the same about the Soviet Union until Gorbachev unwittingly took it off its leash.

The development of offensive missile weapons has always been Kim's goal, no change.

But Kim wasn't testing them while he was relaxed. Trump - minus the warmongering rhetoric of typical DC party hacks - put him at ease.

[shunyadragon]

The "credibility" mantra is really old and, frankly, dumb. It is used by warmongering neocons and Leftoids alike. One might say they don't want to give credibility to the leader of a coup that just occurred, especially if there is still a resistance going on that might topple it. That would hurt the chances of a rebellion. But the NK regime has been in place for more than 70 years and it's not going anywhere anytime soon. To say "I don't want to give them credibility" is just plain stupid. We recognized the Soviet government, giving them credibility for about the same length of time.



I find that difficult to believe. One could have said the same about the Soviet Union until Gorbachev unwittingly took it off its leash.



But Kim wasn't testing them while he was relaxed. Trump - minus the warmongering rhetoric of typical DC party hacks - put him at ease.

Your devoted Trumpism is overwhelmingly apparent, including your extreme right verbiage toward those that do not share your beliefs. North Korea and Kim are on the extreme end of the scale of fanatical dictatorships. Yes, the government would need to change for there to be a change and it most likely it will not.

[Ronson]

Your devoted Trumpism is overwhelmingly apparent, including your extreme right verbiage toward those that do not share your beliefs.

It's called "anti-militarism", not Trumpism or "extreme right." The extreme right is in agreement with you. Go ask Lindsay Graham, John Bolton, Nikki Haley or Dick Cheney.

North Korea and Kim are on the extreme end of the scale of fanatical dictatorships.

No one said they weren't.

Yes, the government would need to change for there to be a change and it most likely it will not.

Let me find a translator ....

[shunyadragon]

Little Rocket Man had an opportunity to eventually become a friend and possibly a sort of client state.

Unbelievable delusions of the reality of Kim and North Korea.

[shunyadragon]

It's called "anti-militarism", not Trumpism or "extreme right." The extreme right is in agreement with you. Go ask Lindsay Graham, John Bolton, Nikki Haley or Dick Cheney.

No anti-militarism on my part especially concerning Ukraine. No such agreement with me concerning the extreme right and Trumpism which you are representing in spades.

No one said they weren't.

Than what was the basis of the claims that our relationship with Kim would be any different?

[Ronson]

No anti-militarism on my part especially concerning Ukraine. No such agreement with me concerning the extreme right and Trumpism which you are representing in spades.

Than what was the basis of the claims that our relationship with Kim would be any different?

I explained the basis. Trump treated Kim like Ford treated Brezhnev, or Reagan treated Gorbachev: which is the leader of an adversarial country. No warlike rhetoric from afar like warmongers like to do, but up close and personal so they can communicate without all the virtue signaling. It isn't meant to make them friends, but to cool down hostilities so both sides aren't sitting on hair triggers while talking smack. I don't expect you to understand because the Military Industrial Complex has too many Americans brainwashed into thinking we must always be confronting someone somewhere.