Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Educators again tell parents to butt out

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Not to mention cursing!


    (er... I mean cursive!)
    I could curse at a collegiate level when I was in Fifth grade.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post

      The ideas in the excerpt would certainly be more at home in a social studies class, but at least from when I was in high school I remember topics related to our readings being explored, either through terminology defined or extra reading. A lot of literature requires additional context for modern readers to understand it fully. At worst the lesson was a non-sequitur, in which case no real harm is done regardless.
      I took an English class where we spent several days on the first page of a Tale of Two Cities because there was one or two kids that couldn't grasp the opening and the teacher couldn't explain it. I think it was day three when I finally, very loudly said "It's a study of extreme contrasts."

      But if the teacher used this novel as an excuse to whip out some lesson plan on say income inequality in order to understand the situation leading up to the French Revolution it would be pretty obvious that the teacher was seeking to insert something she wanted to teach and was looking for an excuse to do so.

      As for, at worst no harm done. Let's reverse it and see how you feel.

      While reading the Count of Monte Crisco, or Crime and Punishment, and the teacher decides that the class needs some background in crime and the law and starts teaching that young black males, who represent only 6.5% of the population at most, are responsible for roughly 50% of violent crimes including murder. And just for giggles, add that

      No individual is personally responsible for all the violence committed by black males, but you are responsible for whether you are currently upholding the systems that allows this to continue


      See? No real harm done.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        The whole "CRT isn't taught in schools" reminds me alot of many of the tactics used in the past when conservatives tried to push creationism into schools through "Intelligent Design."

        EVERYONE knew it was creationism in disguise. Creationists knew it, people opposed to creationism knew it. But the delivery was altered slightly so that they could point to creationism and say "See this isn't that, we don't teach creationism in school."

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Sorry, but this sounds suspiciously like the "rank and file" nonsense people use to defend the FBI. If the problem is the unions and not the teachers, then why aren't the "rank and file" teachers calling out the unions and demanding change? Instead, they're all going right along with it and arrogantly telling parents to mind their business, despite the fact that educating our children is a parent's business!
          My sis-in-law tried to fight back about a bunch of political crap in her school and was transferred to a different school and basically side-lined (this is in Tennessee a pretty conservative state). She finally just decided to retire and not put up with it any more. I don't know the specifics or if it was about teaching CRT or anything like that, just that individual teachers really have no way to "fight the system" - and this wasn't even about the union, just the leadership of her school and the school board. The union did nothing to help her though.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post
            The whole "CRT isn't taught in schools" reminds me alot of many of the tactics used in the past when conservatives tried to push creationism into schools through "Intelligent Design."

            EVERYONE knew it was creationism in disguise. Creationists knew it, people opposed to creationism knew it. But the delivery was altered slightly so that they could point to creationism and say "See this isn't that, we don't teach creationism in school."
            cdesign proponentsists

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              My sis-in-law tried to fight back about a bunch of political crap in her school and was transferred to a different school and basically side-lined (this is in Tennessee a pretty conservative state). She finally just decided to retire and not put up with it any more. I don't know the specifics or if it was about teaching CRT or anything like that, just that individual teachers really have no way to "fight the system" - and this wasn't even about the union, just the leadership of her school and the school board. The union did nothing to help her though.
              It's easy to silence an individual. It would be another matter if the "rank and file" banded together and took a stand.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                It's easy to silence an individual. It would be another matter if the "rank and file" banded together and took a stand.
                Of course it could be argued that they already banded together to take a stand and the teacher's unions was the result.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Of course it could be argued that they already banded together to take a stand and the teacher's unions was the result.
                  I.... um... yeah...

                  In the words of Roger Daltry:

                  "Meet the new boss; same as the old boss"
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    It's easy to silence an individual. It would be another matter if the "rank and file" banded together and took a stand.
                    There were several teachers at the school that sided with my sister-in-law and they all got reassigned also. They were much younger than her so they had way more to lose and couldn't afford to retire or leave. When your boss holds the purse strings and the union doesn't help you then you really have no recourse if you need your job.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                      My sis-in-law tried to fight back about a bunch of political crap in her school and was transferred to a different school and basically side-lined (this is in Tennessee a pretty conservative state). She finally just decided to retire and not put up with it any more. I don't know the specifics or if it was about teaching CRT or anything like that, just that individual teachers really have no way to "fight the system" - and this wasn't even about the union, just the leadership of her school and the school board. The union did nothing to help her though.
                      I don't think most people have any idea whatsoever how much control the unions have over public schools -- which is why they will fight tooth and nail against School Choice.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        I don't think most people have any idea whatsoever how much control the unions have over public schools -- which is why they will fight tooth and nail against School Choice.
                        My sister in law is thinking about running for the school board herself so she can be a real pain in their rears.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          My sister in law is thinking about running for the school board herself so she can be a real pain in their rears.
                          We're starting up a Turning Point USA / Faith chapter for that very purpose - to recruit, train and support conservatives to run for school boards and public offices.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            So this warrants handling this in school, exactly how? Our schools STINK at actual education in math, reading, English, science, geography.... why do we need to add this crap when we can't teach the basics?
                            We're probably not going to see major improvement in our teaching the basics without an enormous systemic overhaul, so in the meantime there's no harm done in minor asides like this since they're in no way mutually exclusive.

                            Personally I would like to see schools become a lot more strict with graduations and be free to hold students back a grade who don't know the material. My understanding is that funding metrics incentivize schools to pass all students regardless of material retention, and the threat of not being able to coast through without learning anything will revitalize the cultural importance of academic achievement for non Asian-Americans.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              Not really because the latter doesn't really exist in this country outside of liberal affirmative action policies.

                              Perhaps you are mixing reading class with English class. The latter is the class where this happened.
                              There are all kinds of studies done on racial bias in different aspects of society and government in favor of white and Asian Americans and against black, Hispanic, and indigenous Americans. I encourage you to look into them.

                              I honestly don't know if you're from the USA or not but in America it's not uncommon for English classes to also be a reading/literature classes. All of the assigned fiction reading I got in middle school and high school was through an English class. We did not have a separate reading or literature class.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                I took an English class where we spent several days on the first page of a Tale of Two Cities because there was one or two kids that couldn't grasp the opening and the teacher couldn't explain it. I think it was day three when I finally, very loudly said "It's a study of extreme contrasts."

                                But if the teacher used this novel as an excuse to whip out some lesson plan on say income inequality in order to understand the situation leading up to the French Revolution it would be pretty obvious that the teacher was seeking to insert something she wanted to teach and was looking for an excuse to do so.

                                As for, at worst no harm done. Let's reverse it and see how you feel.

                                While reading the Count of Monte Crisco, or Crime and Punishment, and the teacher decides that the class needs some background in crime and the law and starts teaching that young black males, who represent only 6.5% of the population at most, are responsible for roughly 50% of violent crimes including murder. And just for giggles, add that

                                No individual is personally responsible for all the violence committed by black males, but you are responsible for whether you are currently upholding the systems that allows this to continue


                                See? No real harm done.
                                In one of my high school English classes we read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and had a handout that went over the political environment at the time explaining the socialist elements in the novel. We also read about the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire. I think that those were entirely appropriate additions. I have never read A Tale of Two Cities, but if the French Revolution was an important part of the story then I don't really see why an explanation for why it happened wouldn't be appropriate. Sometimes schools will have different classes cover the same subject, like how during my time in middle school we read Number the Stars in English while learning about the Holocaust in History, so you can avoid these sorts of diversions.

                                First, the Count of Monte Cristo and Crime and Punishment don't have anything to do with black crime statistics. Second, your boxed statement should lead an intelligent person to the same conclusion as the original statement in the original post, that historic systemic racism has been immensely detrimental to black people in the US and that individual action to avoid perpetuation is the only way to make substantial progress.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 11-26-2022, 03:06 PM
                                7 responses
                                65 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by shunyadragon, 11-26-2022, 01:46 PM
                                60 responses
                                384 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 11-25-2022, 02:56 PM
                                22 responses
                                179 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Diogenes, 11-23-2022, 12:22 PM
                                35 responses
                                274 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Started by Juvenal, 11-23-2022, 08:04 AM
                                100 responses
                                716 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Gondwanaland  
                                Working...
                                X