EU sees sabotage of Nord Stream

[shunyadragon]

From what I understand (though I could be wrong), it was rather deep enough that required sophisticated technology to achieve; tech that no one presumably would believe the Ukrainians had.

No sophisticated technology required. All that is needed is a magnetic mine or depth charges that have been around since WWI dropped from something like a commercial fishing boat. The problem with Ukranians is not technology, but they do not lhave any presence in the area to do this.

[shunyadragon]

Pretty much. Kinda like an old Agatha Christie whodunit with a whole slew of suspects all with motives of some sort.


Depending how far out to sea this took place, various amphibious special forces could have even set out from the shore.

I see a 007 movie plot in this, but all that for some methane gas. . . .

[CivilDiscourse]

I can't help it. My phone keeps showing the following

EU sees sabotage of Nord Stream by seer

I can't help but feel like someone is being unfairly blamed here.

[rogue06]

I see a 007 movie plot in this, but all that for some methane gas. . . .

Likely nearly nothing that complex. It would be a relatively simple operation.

[shunyadragon]

I can't help it. My phone keeps showing the following

EU sees sabotage of Nord Stream by seer

I can't help but feel like someone is being unfairly blamed here.

Maybe not,

[rogue06]

No sophisticated technology required. All that is needed is a magnetic mine or depth charges that have been around since WWI dropped from something like a commercial fishing boat. The problem with Ukranians is not technology, but they do not lhave any presence in the area to do this.

Not a whole lot of Ukrainian shipping going up into the Baltic Sea. Of course you'd have to be an idiot to use a ship linked to you if you're going to do something like that.

Just to muddy the waters a bit more, Putin has been upset with the Baltic countries for basically the same reasons he is angry with Ukraine. One of them could be behind this figuring it would help destabilize Russia a bit more.

Some have even proposed that it might be anti-Putin forces in the Russian military itself.

All are long shots, but at this point...

[CivilDiscourse]

Maybe not,

Somehow, I doubt seer is the saboteur. :D

[Ronson]

No sophisticated technology required. All that is needed is a magnetic mine or depth charges that have been around since WWI dropped from something like a commercial fishing boat. The problem with Ukranians is not technology, but they do not lhave any presence in the area to do this.

They could easily hire some entity to do it clandestinely. Just take some of those mega billions of US tax dollars Biden keeps throwing at them and hire someone.

[Ronson]

Not a whole lot of Ukrainian shipping going up into the Baltic Sea. Of course you'd have to be an idiot to use a ship linked to you if you're going to do something like that.

Just to muddy the waters a bit more, Putin has been upset with the Baltic countries for basically the same reasons he is angry with Ukraine. One of them could be behind this figuring it would help destabilize Russia a bit more.

Some have even proposed that it might be anti-Putin forces in the Russian military itself.

All are long shots, but at this point...

I'm surprised Putin hasn't blamed Lithuania. He's plenty irked with that country right now.

[shunyadragon]

They could easily hire some entity to do it clandestinely. Just take some of those mega billions of US tax dollars Biden keeps throwing at them and hire someone.

Highly biased political agenda aside,, this is an extremely unreal hypothetical scenario. Ah . . . sounds like one too many 'noids You need to do better than that

[seanD]

No sophisticated technology required. All that is needed is a magnetic mine or depth charges that have been around since WWI dropped from something like a commercial fishing boat. The problem with Ukranians is not technology, but they do not lhave any presence in the area to do this.

What does "presence" have to do with anything? That would be like saying "Bob couldn't have robbed the bank because no one identified him at the scene."

Of course no one is going to identify them because a criminal dong a criminal act is going to disguise their identify.

[Ronson]

What does "presence" have to do with anything? That would be like saying "Bob couldn't have robbed the bank because no one identified him at the scene."

Or "Bob couldn't rob that bank because he isn't known to hang out in that neighborhood."

[shunyadragon]

Or "Bob couldn't rob that bank because he isn't known to hang out in that neighborhood."

Bob was in New York when the bank was robbed in Los Angeles.

[Ronson]

Bob was in New York when the bank was robbed in Los Angeles.

Ukraine's influence can only be in one place at any given time? They'd better recall all of their diplomats that are spread out all over the world.

[seanD]

The WH response...



No truer words have ever been spoken. The EU climate change cult is elated I'm sure.

My argument has been that US benefits from this by disrupting any potential future negotiations between russia and the EU and disallowing russia to use energy as a weapon to extort the EU, in addition to advancing the EU climate change cult agenda.

Now from the man himself, who we would presume knows full well who's responsible (in fact, probably ordered it himself), Mr. Blinken in his answer to the question of the consequences of NS2...

(bold emphasis mine)

What we’ve been doing – and we’ve also been working on this together for many, many weeks as we saw the Russian aggression in Ukraine and as we saw the ongoing weaponization of energy by Russia – is to work very closely with European partners as well as countries around the world to make sure that there is enough energy on world markets. And so we’ve significantly increased our production as well as making available to Europe liquefied natural gas. And we’re now the leading supplier of LNG to Europe to help compensate for any gas or oil that it’s losing as a result of Russia’s aggression against Ukraine.

We’ve worked to release oil from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve to make sure as well that there is oil on the markets and to help keep prices down. We’ve engaged with the European Union and established months ago a task force to work directly with Europe on ways to decrease demand to help get through the winter, as well as to pursue additional supply and to find ways to speed up the transition to renewables even as we’re getting through this challenging period. So all of that work is ongoing.

My own sense – and I mentioned this the other day – is, look, there’s a lot of hard work to do to make sure that countries and partners get through the winter. Europe itself has taken very significant steps to both decrease demand but also look at ways to pursue the transition to renewables at the same time. And ultimately this is also a tremendous opportunity. It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs. That’s very significant and that offers tremendous strategic opportunity for the years to come, but meanwhile, we’re determined to do everything we possibly can to make sure that the consequences of all of this are not borne by citizens in our countries or, for that matter, around the world.

This is my shocked face.