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Stasi home invasion terrorizes Pro-Life family.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

    Why are you trying to undermine your own country’s principal domestic intelligence, security, and federal law enforcement agency?

    What do you think this tells us about you?
    That I'm a patriot who hates fascists.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
      I think the swat raid (if thats being relayed sccurately by either the family or the DailyWure) was very much overkill and those types of things can end badly and are used far too much by police. Shouldn't have happened and wasn't needed for the charges in question.

      I also think this guy appears to deserve the charges especially when the not one but two (which I find interesting wasnt reported by DW) assaults - of a 70 year old dude at that - are taken into account.

      Sorry, I'm as against abortion as one can get but perpetrating violence for your political views isn't acceptable. I stopped attending a couple different regular pro-life protests in Colorado and in Missouri after seeing how some of the protestors behaved (similar to this guy).
      I agree. 35 or so years ago, when I did some clinic protesting in Pittsburgh, we were all firmly instructed to be polite and non-confrontational with the "other side."
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • #33
        This article at LifeSite News seems to be the original source of the story.

        Catholic News Agency article giving a bit more background on the family and the "crime" prompting the Gestapo raid. Includes this:


        According to the indictment, Houck shoved the escort, identified only with the initials B.L., to the ground as B.L was attempting to escort two patients. Houck also “verbally confronted” and “forcefully shoved” B.L. to the ground in front of Planned Parenthood the same day, the indictment says. The indictment says that B.L. was injured and needed medical attention.

        Brian Middleton, the Houck family spokesman, maintains the injury was minor, only requiring “a Bandaid on his finger.”

        According to Father James Hutchins, who serves as the chaplain of Houck's organization, the case against Houck may have been deliberately exaggerated.


        Crowdfunding site for the Houck family. Casts the incident thusly (emphasis in original):

        At 7am on Friday, September 23, 20 SWAT team members burst into the home of Mark Houck, founder of The King's Men - an organization that forms men to act as leaders and protectors in their families and communities, especially in the fight to end abortion. These agents had guns drawn and shields up in the faces of Mark, his wife, and their seven young children. Mark was handcuffed in front of his family and arrested.

        Mark's "crime" was protecting his son from an aggressive Planned Parenthood escort in downtown Philadelphia.


        Breitbart article about incident. Only online source I've found so far providing the FBI side of the story, in what can charitably be described as a "carefully worded statement":

        In a statement to Fox News on Sunday, a spokesperson with the FBI Philadelphia field office denied that a SWAT Team had been used to apprehend Mark Houck.

        “There are inaccurate claims being made regarding the arrest of Mark Houck. No SWAT Team or SWAT operators were involved. FBI agents knocked on Mr. Houck’s front door, identified themselves as FBI agents and asked him to exit the residence. He did so and was taken into custody without incident pursuant to an indictment,” the FBI said.


        The article goes on to note

        The FBI did not deny that up to 25-30 armored agents were on the scene or that Houck’s children witnessed the agents pointing rifles at their father and mother to arrest him for allegedly shoving someone in front of an abortion clinic.

        ...

        Ryan-Marie said her children were “really sad and stressed” as a result of the raid and that she has already “reached out to some psychiatrists or psychologists to try and help us through this.”

        “I don’t really know what’s going to come of it when you see guns pointed at your dad and your mom in your house when you first wake up in the morning,” she told the outlet.


        Basically the only point the FBI disputed was the specific term, "SWAT."
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

        Justice for Matthew Perna!

        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

        Comment


        • #34
          Down with pro-life terrorists. They are despicable fanatics who ought to know better.
          “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
          “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
          “not all there” - you know who you are

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by firstfloor View Post
            Down with pro-life terrorists. They are despicable fanatics who ought to know better.
            Now that's the sorta trolling we associate with you.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

              Certainly. Though again, the fact that there were two different assaults by the same person on the same person..... doesn't look good even if the 70 year old guy was a d-bag.

              Certainly not something swat-team worthy though.
              I'm in total agreement that a SWAT team wasn't needed.

              Scroll down and you'll see their disclaimer in a story in Breitbart of all places. The FBI denies just about everything claimed by the Houck's. There was no raid. There was no SWAT team. They knocked on the door, identified themselves, and asked him to exit. He complied and was arrested. No entry into the home. No menacing of his children.

              Breitbart being Breitbart, they go on to note that's not a denial of the presence of a team of the same size armed and armored like a SWAT team. Or another team on the next block with controllers for the Jewish Space Lasers.

              His wife is saying she saw guns drawn.
              .
              “They had big, huge rifles pointed at Mark and pointed at me and kind of pointed throughout the house,” Ryan-Marie said of the moment that her husband opened the door for the agents.

              That much rings true. Cops don't knock politely. When they hit the door, they want someone to answer it. The story is that Houck yelled through the door that they were scaring his kids. If he's hesitating, they have to be assume, worst case, it's because he's arming up, and prep for that. They'd have multiple angles covered when the door opened. But there's a limit to how many lines of fire could be covered through one door without putting fellow agents in the line of fire, and I'm guessing that's probably four or five. And I don't see the geometry where kids at the top of the stairs are going to be able to see weapons drawn out in the yard, as she's claiming.

              The indictment says Houck was doing the yelling, and doing so while B.L. was escorting two clients who were almost certainly there for birth control services. I can't see a geometry in that encounter where the escort could be in anyone's face who hadn't inserted themselves into that position to harass those two women. The only obscenity claimed was that the escort told the kid his dad was homosexual.
              .
              On several occasions when Mark went to sidewalk counsel last year, he took his eldest son, who was only 12 at the time, she explained. For “weeks and weeks,” a “pro-abortion protester” would speak to the boy saying “crude … inappropriate and disgusting things,” such as “you’re dad’s a fag,” and other statements that were too vulgar for her to convey.

              Go ahead, let it out, everybody. It's "your." Ready to move on?

              Of course that would be inappropriate, if only because the language is homophobic. The quotes and grammatical issues say this was taken from a written statement. But like so much here, there's evidence of half-truths and exaggeration. A "pro-abortion protestor" isn't something that happens at a PP clinic. And it's not sidewalk counseling if you're forcing yourself on people on the grounds of the clinic itself.


              A last note on the Stasi references that are becoming common here.

              No one who's read about the Stasi is buying this. Nobody's being beaten, or disappeared, or having their relatives arrested, or any of the other outrages that make the name Stasi so emotive. To the contrary, these references can only demean the real suffering of the people who endured their reign of terror. And to the extent the descriptions are dishonest, the end result is to diminish the credibility needed to present a convincing case.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Now that's the sorta trolling we associate with you.
                Does that mean you are not against terrorists?
                “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                “not all there” - you know who you are

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                  Does that mean you are not against terrorists?
                  Don't you mean "Freedom Fighters"?

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                    I'm in total agreement that a SWAT team wasn't needed.

                    Scroll down and you'll see their disclaimer in a story in Breitbart of all places. The FBI denies just about everything claimed by the Houck's. There was no raid. There was no SWAT team. They knocked on the door, identified themselves, and asked him to exit. He complied and was arrested. No entry into the home. No menacing of his children.

                    Breitbart being Breitbart, they go on to note that's not a denial of the presence of a team of the same size armed and armored like a SWAT team. Or another team on the next block with controllers for the Jewish Space Lasers.

                    His wife is saying she saw guns drawn.
                    .
                    “They had big, huge rifles pointed at Mark and pointed at me and kind of pointed throughout the house,” Ryan-Marie said of the moment that her husband opened the door for the agents.

                    That much rings true. Cops don't knock politely. When they hit the door, they want someone to answer it. The story is that Houck yelled through the door that they were scaring his kids. If he's hesitating, they have to be assume, worst case, it's because he's arming up, and prep for that. They'd have multiple angles covered when the door opened. But there's a limit to how many lines of fire could be covered through one door without putting fellow agents in the line of fire, and I'm guessing that's probably four or five. And I don't see the geometry where kids at the top of the stairs are going to be able to see weapons drawn out in the yard, as she's claiming.

                    The indictment says Houck was doing the yelling, and doing so while B.L. was escorting two clients who were almost certainly there for birth control services. I can't see a geometry in that encounter where the escort could be in anyone's face who hadn't inserted themselves into that position to harass those two women. The only obscenity claimed was that the escort told the kid his dad was homosexual.
                    .
                    On several occasions when Mark went to sidewalk counsel last year, he took his eldest son, who was only 12 at the time, she explained. For “weeks and weeks,” a “pro-abortion protester” would speak to the boy saying “crude … inappropriate and disgusting things,” such as “you’re dad’s a fag,” and other statements that were too vulgar for her to convey.

                    Go ahead, let it out, everybody. It's "your." Ready to move on?

                    Of course that would be inappropriate, if only because the language is homophobic. The quotes and grammatical issues say this was taken from a written statement. But like so much here, there's evidence of half-truths and exaggeration. A "pro-abortion protestor" isn't something that happens at a PP clinic. And it's not sidewalk counseling if you're forcing yourself on people on the grounds of the clinic itself.
                    Interesting.

                    A last note on the Stasi references that are becoming common here.

                    No one who's read about the Stasi is buying this. Nobody's being beaten, or disappeared, or having their relatives arrested, or any of the other outrages that make the name Stasi so emotive. To the contrary, these references can only demean the real suffering of the people who endured their reign of terror. And to the extent the descriptions are dishonest, the end result is to diminish the credibility needed to present a convincing case.
                    Yep, it's no different than the last few years of the left using the term 'Nazi' to describe things they don't like. Just the other side of the coin and just as dumb.
                    "When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing"
                    -Trump Press Secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders


                    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Don't you mean "Freedom Fighters"?
                      We can agree that one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. What I am noticing is loss of civility. I think it is shameful and alarming and dangerous to the Republic that some people are referring to your FBI as Stasi. You undermine your faith in law enforcement and justice for all at very great risk.
                      “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                      “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                      “not all there” - you know who you are

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                        We can agree that one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. What I am noticing is loss of civility. I think it is shameful and alarming and dangerous to the Republic that some people are referring to your FBI as Stasi. You undermine your faith in law enforcement and justice for all at very great risk.
                        Yes. That's obviously a new trait. I mean NOBODY tried to undermine faith in law enforcement during the trump administration, did they?

                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                        You get the Police force you deserve. Part of the reason that the Police are thugs, or allow thugs in their ranks, is because you turn a blind eye, thus giving them permission to behave badly. And the reason you are so careless has to do with you not being the victim of Police brutality. You don’t care that the blacks suffer.
                        Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                        The tone is set at the top. Trumps super aggression is part of the problem, and the fact that the police seem to use blacks for target practice.
                        Last edited by CivilDiscourse; 09-26-2022, 09:10 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                          We can agree that one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter. What I am noticing is loss of civility. I think it is shameful and alarming and dangerous to the Republic that some people are referring to your FBI as Stasi. You undermine your faith in law enforcement and justice for all at very great risk.
                          As opposed to "jack booted thugs" like some here preferred just a few years ago?

                          As opposed to the whole Defund the Police movement -- because the left insisted they were worse than the criminals?

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            As opposed to "jack booted thugs" like some here preferred just a few years ago?

                            As opposed to the whole Defund the Police movement -- because the left insisted they were worse than the criminals?
                            It is hard to imagine anything worse than a corrupt police force. We all know about institutional racism in the police as well. I would expect that the FBI are much better trained and disciplined.

                            You cannot defund law enforcement and train them to a high standard at the same time. They deserve the right to earn the public’s love and respect, that others may follow in their footsteps. Otherwise decay to something very horrible is inevitable.
                            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                            “not all there” - you know who you are

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                              It is hard to imagine anything worse than a corrupt police force. We all know about institutional racism in the police as well. I would expect that the FBI are much better trained and disciplined.

                              You cannot defund law enforcement and train them to a high standard at the same time. They deserve the right to earn the public’s love and respect, that others may follow in their footsteps. Otherwise decay to something very horrible is inevitable.
                              So, the right undermining faith in law enforcement is an issue, when it's the left it's legitimate?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                                It is hard to imagine anything worse than a corrupt police force. We all know about institutional racism in the police as well.
                                And now you're trying to have it both ways.


                                FF1: "You undermine your faith in law enforcement and justice for all at very great risk."

                                FF2: "It is hard to imagine anything worse than a corrupt police force. We all know about institutional racism in the police as well."


                                Try to have at least some level of consistency.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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