Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

The Pope fails to take a moral stand on Russia's invasion of Ukraine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    Ah yes we should want "cheerleaders" for Russia instead, right Komrade?
    Read my posts a bit slower so they have a chance to sink in, that way you will avoid making a fool of yourself.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Read my posts a bit slower so they have a chance to sink in, that way you will avoid making a fool of yourself.
      I read what you said quite carefully. I'm sorry you don't like the response you got. But that's on you. Maybe word your posts differently in the future.
      "When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing"
      -Trump Press Secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders


      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        I read what you said quite carefully. I'm sorry you don't like the response you got. But that's on you. Maybe word your posts differently in the future.
        The response I got was unrelated to anything I wrote.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

          The Pope made no reference to the corruption, and like you the Pope is ignore the unbelievable horrific brutality of Russia on the Ukrainian people. and the ongoing Russian imperialism to take over and dominate Eastern Europe by force and intimidation.

          Your comments here put you in the extreme right support for Putin,
          I'm not ignoring the brutality of Russia, but neither am I ignoring the brutality of Ukraine. Both sides are guilty of atrocities in this conflict. I know some people want to give Ukraine a pass because Russia started it (although it's more complicated than that), but I'm not one of those people. I'm not sure how it supports Russia to say that both sides have the blood of innocent people on their hands.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Russkies are trying to escape the draft. Remember, this fight is against one man - Putin. Let’s keep going onward to victory.
            “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
            “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
            “not all there” - you know who you are

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              The response I got was unrelated to anything I wrote.
              It was directly related to what you wrote. Perhaps you should take your own advice
              "When you're attacking FBI agents because you're under criminal investigation, you're losing"
              -Trump Press Secretary, Sarah Huckabee Sanders


              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                It was directly related to what you wrote. Perhaps you should take your own advice
                No. You just attached one of your rants onto my post without troubling yourself with reading anything I have been saying.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  I'm not ignoring the brutality of Russia,
                  YES you are by equating Ukrane brutality with Russia. Russian brutality includes using rockets and artillary to attack civilian targets such as schools, hospitals and shopping malls and much more. Also kidnapping 100,000 or more Ukraine children, executing 1000s of civilians including women and children, extreme brutality against prisoners of war, and that is, of course not all they did. I may cite more in direct references including body counts. references.


                  but neither am I ignoring the brutality of Ukraine. Both sides are guilty of atrocities in this conflict. I know some people want to give Ukraine a pass because Russia started it (although it's more complicated than that), but I'm not one of those people. I'm not sure how it supports Russia to say that both sides have the blood of innocent people on their hands.
                  The degree of insane brutality of Russia against the civilian population alone is at least 1000 times greater than anything Ukraine did. Even the Pope did not go as far as you are going with cold indifference to the degree of Russian brutality and war crimes.

                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                    Good for the Pope. I have maintained from the beginning that the Russian-Ukraine conflict is a dispute between two corrupt governments. To take a stand against one is to stand in favor of the corruption of the other. I think a neutral stance is best.
                    Again . . . The Pope and you ignore the elephant in the room cause of the invasion, Russian imperialism the subjugation of ALL countries of Asia and Eastern Europe, which has been the goal of Russia by force going back to the Czars. Putin appeals to the imperialist claim of the Czars and the Orthodox Church.

                    The brutal ethnic cleansing is parallel and in some ways exceeds Hitler's goal of creating a select German 'Fatherland,' as Russia has removed many Ukranians by extermination and moved in Russian to replace the native population. Again . . . there is a history of this going back to the Czars

                    This brutal horrific policy has a history.

                    Source: http://www.clovisinstitute.org/population-replacement-holodomor/#:~:text=In%20the%201930%E2%80%99s%20the%20Soviets%20committed%20genocide.%20They,The%20event%20would%20become%20known%20as%20the%20Holodomor.



                    Russian Population Replacement in the Ukraine – Holodomor

                    JULY 27, 2018 / CLOVIS INSTITUTE / 0 COMMENTS

                    Ukraine, empty fields
                    The Rise of the Soviet Union


                    In 1917, in the middle of the First World War, the Soviets seized control of Russia. They killed Czar Nicolas, as well as the rest of his family, and started the communist revolution. We may know that communism does not work, that the economic system is a failure, and that the cars in communist Russia were horrible. Yet, there is a part of history far worse than that. The Holodomor.

                    In the 1930’s the Soviets committed genocide. They tried to eradicate the Ukrainian people, so that they could replace them by ethnic Russians. The event would become known as the Holodomor. It is another instance where a government tries to change the ethnic make up of a country in order to increase its control. The strategy is similar to what the Chinese are doing in Tibet, but what the Soviets did was far more cruel.


                    What happened?


                    The Soviets wanted to collectivize the farms. Private property was an evil to be destroyed in the socialist paradise. In reality this meant that Russian agents would enter Ukrainian villages, and taking peoples cattle and possessions. They forced the collectivization on the farmers, by taking away their private property.

                    Besides taking away the property, the Russians imposed ever increasing demands on the Ukrainian harvest. Not supplying the requested quota would result in you being deported to Siberia. Eating anything from the harvest became at some point punishable by death.

                    To the farmers, this felt like a return to serfdom. Once again they would not get to reap the benefits of their own hard work. Unsurprisingly, the farmers often revolted against the Russians. Many opposed communism and would have preferred to return to the age of the Czars.

                    All of this happened in the years 1932 and 1933.
                    The Man-Made Famine


                    During the years of the famine in the Ukraine, there was no famine anywhere else. The Ukrainian harvest was shipped abroad, sold in order to let money flow into the Soviet coffers. Ukrainians could not leave their land in search of food. They could not eat any of the food they were growing. The Soviets had made this all illegal and punishable by banishment or death.

                    The famine was, in its essence, a punishment. The Ukrainians were not loyal servants, and so they were destroyed. It was a genocide.

                    Russian settlers repopulated the abandoned Ukrainian villages. The newcomers settled into the abandoned farms. The previous occupants of the farms had perished in the famine.

                    It is estimated that between 3 and 8 million died. According to the Mykhailo Ptukha Institute of Demography and Social Studies of the Ukrainian National Academy of Sciences estimated that Ukraine lost 4.5 million people because of the Holdomor. Specifically, 3.9 million people died and 600 thousand babies died prematurely. That puts it on equal footing with the Jewish holocaust perpetrated by the Nazi’s – they too sought to destroy a group that was deemed to be not loyal to the cause.

                    Despite being equal in size, and maybe we could even say it was equal in brutality, the Holodomor is not as widely known. The term Holodomor itself is a merging of Ukrainian words, which roughly translates as death by hunger.

                    Population Replacement


                    The Soviets aim in this genocide was clear. The Ukrainians were not loyal subjects, but they needed control of the area as it was the breadbasket of the Russian Empire. They decided to do what would serve their interests best – kill the Ukrainians and re-settle the land with loyal Russians.

                    The Germans attempted to destroy the Jews, because they considered the Jewish people to be parasites on their civilization. They eradicated them because they did not trust them to be loyal subjects serving the German cause.

                    The Chinese are re-settling Tibet with Han-Chinese to strengthen their control of the area. The Tibetans are not deemed loyal enough, and the Chinese wish to ensure that Tibet remains a part of China due to its geographical importance.

                    And once more in the Ukraine, we have seen governments enforcing demographic changes in order to serve their interests. The arrival of Russian immigrants destroyed the unity of the Ukrainian people. The population of Ukraine became diversified. This diverse society would never again be able to pose a serious threat to the ones in power.

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      Again . . . The Pope and you ignore the elephant in the room cause of the invasion, Russian imperialism the subjugation of ALL countries of Asia and Eastern Europe, which has been the goal of Russia by force going back to the Czars. Putin appeals to the imperialist claim of the Czars and the Orthodox Church.

                      The brutal ethnic cleansing is parallel and in some ways exceeds Hitler's goal of creating a select German 'Fatherland,' as Russia has removed many Ukranians by extermination and moved in Russian to replace the native population. Again . . . there is a history of this going back to the Czars

                      This brutal horrific policy has a history.

                      Source: http://www.clovisinstitute.org/population-replacement-holodomor/#:~:text=In%20the%201930%E2%80%99s%20the%20Soviets%20committed%20genocide.%20They,The%20event%20would%20become%20known%20as%20the%20Holodomor.



                      Russian Population Replacement in the Ukraine – Holodomor

                      JULY 27, 2018 / CLOVIS INSTITUTE / 0 COMMENTS

                      Ukraine, empty fields
                      The Rise of the Soviet Union


                      In 1917, in the middle of the First World War, the Soviets seized control of Russia. They killed Czar Nicolas, as well as the rest of his family, and started the communist revolution. We may know that communism does not work, that the economic system is a failure, and that the cars in communist Russia were horrible. Yet, there is a part of history far worse than that. The Holodomor.

                      In the 1930’s the Soviets committed genocide. They tried to eradicate the Ukrainian people, so that they could replace them by ethnic Russians. The event would become known as the Holodomor. It is another instance where a government tries to change the ethnic make up of a country in order to increase its control. The strategy is similar to what the Chinese are doing in Tibet, but what the Soviets did was far more cruel.


                      What happened?


                      The Soviets wanted to collectivize the farms. Private property was an evil to be destroyed in the socialist paradise. In reality this meant that Russian agents would enter Ukrainian villages, and taking peoples cattle and possessions. They forced the collectivization on the farmers, by taking away their private property.

                      Besides taking away the property, the Russians imposed ever increasing demands on the Ukrainian harvest. Not supplying the requested quota would result in you being deported to Siberia. Eating anything from the harvest became at some point punishable by death.

                      To the farmers, this felt like a return to serfdom. Once again they would not get to reap the benefits of their own hard work. Unsurprisingly, the farmers often revolted against the Russians. Many opposed communism and would have preferred to return to the age of the Czars.

                      All of this happened in the years 1932 and 1933.
                      The Man-Made Famine


                      During the years of the famine in the Ukraine, there was no famine anywhere else. The Ukrainian harvest was shipped abroad, sold in order to let money flow into the Soviet coffers. Ukrainians could not leave their land in search of food. They could not eat any of the food they were growing. The Soviets had made this all illegal and punishable by banishment or death.

                      The famine was, in its essence, a punishment. The Ukrainians were not loyal servants, and so they were destroyed. It was a genocide.

                      Russian settlers repopulated the abandoned Ukrainian villages. The newcomers settled into the abandoned farms. The previous occupants of the farms had perished in the famine.

                      It is estimated that between 3 and 8 million died. According to the Mykhailo Ptukha Institute of Demography and Social Studies of the Ukrainian National Academy of Sciences estimated that Ukraine lost 4.5 million people because of the Holdomor. Specifically, 3.9 million people died and 600 thousand babies died prematurely. That puts it on equal footing with the Jewish holocaust perpetrated by the Nazi’s – they too sought to destroy a group that was deemed to be not loyal to the cause.

                      Despite being equal in size, and maybe we could even say it was equal in brutality, the Holodomor is not as widely known. The term Holodomor itself is a merging of Ukrainian words, which roughly translates as death by hunger.

                      Population Replacement


                      The Soviets aim in this genocide was clear. The Ukrainians were not loyal subjects, but they needed control of the area as it was the breadbasket of the Russian Empire. They decided to do what would serve their interests best – kill the Ukrainians and re-settle the land with loyal Russians.

                      The Germans attempted to destroy the Jews, because they considered the Jewish people to be parasites on their civilization. They eradicated them because they did not trust them to be loyal subjects serving the German cause.

                      The Chinese are re-settling Tibet with Han-Chinese to strengthen their control of the area. The Tibetans are not deemed loyal enough, and the Chinese wish to ensure that Tibet remains a part of China due to its geographical importance.

                      And once more in the Ukraine, we have seen governments enforcing demographic changes in order to serve their interests. The arrival of Russian immigrants destroyed the unity of the Ukrainian people. The population of Ukraine became diversified. This diverse society would never again be able to pose a serious threat to the ones in power.

                      © Copyright Original Source


                      Thanks for presenting an example of what happens in and to a country that tries Communism

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Thanks for presenting an example of what happens in and to a country that tries Communism
                        Not the issue of the thread. In history it is a Russian imperialist issue and not a Soviet nor Communist issue. The elephants in the room' of Russian imperialist brutal attempts to establish the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE goes back to before the Soviet attempts at establishing a Soviet empire. Different government same goals. Remember as noted Putin appeals to the claims of imperialism from the era of the Czars and the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-26-2022, 09:20 AM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          YES you are by equating Ukrane brutality with Russia. Russian brutality includes using rockets and artillary to attack civilian targets such as schools, hospitals and shopping malls and much more. Also kidnapping 100,000 or more Ukraine children, executing 1000s of civilians including women and children, extreme brutality against prisoners of war, and that is, of course not all they did. I may cite more in direct references including body counts. references.




                          The degree of insane brutality of Russia against the civilian population alone is at least 1000 times greater than anything Ukraine did. Even the Pope did not go as far as you are going with cold indifference to the degree of Russian brutality and war crimes.
                          You seem uninformed about exactly what the Ukraine military, particularly the infamous Azov Battalion, has done to Russian nationals, prisoners of war, and even its own people. When Zelinsky was called out on it in an interview, he dismissively shrugged and said, "They are just defending their country."
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                            You seem uninformed about exactly what the Ukraine military, particularly the infamous Azov Battalion, has done to Russian nationals, prisoners of war, and even its own people. When Zelinsky was called out on it in an interview, he dismissively shrugged and said, "They are just defending their country."
                            I am not misinformed, and I acknowledge the Ukranian brutallity, but the elephants in the room are the Russian imperialist extreme brutallity and 'Fatherland' ethnic cleansing aggression that exceeds the Ukrainians by more than 1000 fold. You need to get to know your history as cited. As stated and documented in several posts, which the Pope and you choose to ignore is the imperialist Russian goal of achieving the Russian goal of establishing the Russian 'Fatherland' and ethnic cleansing to repopulate with ethnic Russians.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              Not the issue of the thread. In history it is a Russian imperialist issue and not a Soviet nor Communist issue. The elephants in the room' of Russian imperialist brutal attempts to establish the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE goes back to before the Soviet attempts at establishing a Soviet empire. Different government same goals. Remember as noted Putin appeals to the claims of imperialism from the era of the Czars and the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE.
                              Funny how a Holy Roman Empire rejects the religion of said empire which was supposed to be the part that made it Holy in the first place.

                              And it's that rejection of the RCC is the reason that both sides in the conflict want the pope to butt out and would regard him as interfering if he got involved. Remember, Roman Catholics only make up 0.1% of the population in Russia (there are literally TWELVE TIMES as many Neopagans and Tengrists living there than Catholics).

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                                I am not misinformed, and I acknowledge the Ukranian brutallity, but the elephants in the room are the Russian imperialist extreme brutallity and 'Fatherland' ethnic cleansing aggression that exceeds the Ukrainians by more than 1000 fold. You need to get to know your history as cited. As stated and documented in several posts, which the Pope and you choose to ignore is the imperialist Russian goal of achieving the Russian goal of establishing the Russian 'Fatherland' and ethnic cleansing to repopulate with ethnic Russians.
                                As far as atrocities are concerned, Ukraine and Russia are on equal footing. I've been saying from the beginning, there are no good guys in this fight
                                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 11-26-2022, 03:06 PM
                                7 responses
                                63 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by shunyadragon, 11-26-2022, 01:46 PM
                                55 responses
                                357 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Started by Gondwanaland, 11-25-2022, 02:56 PM
                                22 responses
                                175 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Diogenes, 11-23-2022, 12:22 PM
                                35 responses
                                274 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Started by Juvenal, 11-23-2022, 08:04 AM
                                99 responses
                                705 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post oxmixmudd  
                                Working...
                                X