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Commies and Nazis!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    They probably held lots of other beliefs. I can't prove they weren't all firm adherents of Voodooism. Seer likewise can't prove they are all firm adherents of communism. They were social science professors saying they were Marxist, and I explained what that is in the social sciences above.

    If you want to conduct your own survey of them about communism by all means do so.
    So, you are making a firm claim about what they believe (or don't) but can't back it up. Got it.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post

      Your cartoon could equally be replaced with "right wing policies" or "tax cuts for the rich".
      Conservatives argue that they work when applied and cite examples.

      That is hardly the same thing.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        I find it telling that right wingers choose to pretend there aren't lots of different varieties of socialism and choose to pretend they are all the same thing in order to tar one variety with the failures of another. It's almost as if right wingers don't actually believe they could win a fair argument on the merits of the actual positions.

        Your cartoon could equally be replaced with "right wing policies" or "tax cuts for the rich".
        When exposed, you deflect, amiright?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          Now imagine if these percentages were neo-Nazis rather than Commies? We would be rending our garments! Those professors would be fired. Yet Communism in the last century was arguably more brutal and murderous than Fascism. Why do they get a pass?
          Imagine? There is no relationship between Communism and Nazism. Also . . .

          Communism is an idealistic unrealistic economic/political philosophy, and actually the Soviet Union and China were never truly communist. Under Mao the politics best resembled the emperial model and heirarchy of ancient China. The economy of China today has only limited free enterprise private business is allowed at the local level. Today it is best called a modern form of State Mercantilism where the industries and commerce are owned by powerful political Oligarchies at levels of hierarchy of the government and military units with a goal of national and international monopolies. For example China has cornered the market of probably over 90% 0f some vitamins worldwide.

          Originally the Soviet Union was a centralized rigid command system where the central government owned, controlled and made decisions for everything, but failed and now controlled by a group of powerful oligarchs without the rigid government hierarchy of China. Like China limited small private enterprises are allowed.

          The closest to a communist state that ever existed was the Panama Cana; Zone, where all property and business including the housing was publicly owned by the Pan Canal Company. All hospital and medical services are provided at no cost, There was no private property. Even most cars were provided
          Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-21-2022, 08:37 PM.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

            Imagine? There is no relationship between Communism and Nazism. Also . . .

            Communism is an idealistic unrealistic economic/political philosophy, and actually the Soviet Union and China were never truly communist. Under Mao the politics best resembled the emperial model and heirarchy of ancient China. The economy of China today has only limited free enterprise private business is allowed at the local level. Today it is best called a modern form of State Mercantilism where the industries and commerce are owned by powerful political Oligarchies at levels of hierarchy of the government and military units with a goal of national and international monopolies. For example China has cornered the market of probably over 90% 0f some vitamins worldwide.

            Originally the Soviet Union was a centralized rigid command system where the central government owned, controlled and made decisions for everything, but failed and now controlled by a group of powerful oligarchs without the rigid government hierarchy of China. Like China limited small private enterprises are allowed.

            The closest to a communist state that ever existed was the Panama Cana; Zone, where all property and business including the housing was publicly owned by the Pan Canal Company. All hospital and medical services are provided at no cost, There was no private property. Even most cars were provided
            Ah, the no true communism fallacy

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              I find it telling that right wingers choose to pretend there aren't lots of different varieties of socialism and choose to pretend they are all the same thing in order to tar one variety with the failures of another.
              Be careful what you wish for.

              Benito Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist from a strong Socialist family

              Mussolini split from mainstream Socialism by adding Nationalism into the mix, thereby creating Fascism

              Even Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, regarded it as a type of Socialism.


              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Be careful what you wish for.

                Benito Mussolini was a lifelong Socialist from a strong Socialist family

                Mussolini split from mainstream Socialism by adding Nationalism into the mix, thereby creating Fascism

                Even Mussolini, the founder of Fascism, regarded it as a type of Socialism.
                The National Socialist German Workers Party, aka Nazi party...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                  Imagine? There is no relationship between Communism and Nazism. Also . . .

                  Communism is an idealistic unrealistic economic/political philosophy, and actually the Soviet Union and China were never truly communist. Under Mao the politics best resembled the emperial model and heirarchy of ancient China. The economy of China today has only limited free enterprise private business is allowed at the local level. Today it is best called a modern form of State Mercantilism where the industries and commerce are owned by powerful political Oligarchies at levels of hierarchy of the government and military units with a goal of national and international monopolies. For example China has cornered the market of probably over 90% 0f some vitamins worldwide.

                  Originally the Soviet Union was a centralized rigid command system where the central government owned, controlled and made decisions for everything, but failed and now controlled by a group of powerful oligarchs without the rigid government hierarchy of China. Like China limited small private enterprises are allowed.

                  The closest to a communist state that ever existed was the Panama Cana; Zone, where all property and business including the housing was publicly owned by the Pan Canal Company. All hospital and medical services are provided at no cost, There was no private property. Even most cars were provided
                  You do know that Nazi is short for National Socialists, right?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    You do know that Nazi is short for National Socialists, right?
                    Names mean nothing unless you consider the actual economic and political systems are factually grounded in reality. Actually the Nazi National Socialists government was a rigid dictatorship with a command economy like Russia, but also with Industrial Oligarchs controlling the economy like the Porsche family and Merck Finck. The principle industrial oligarchs of Germany controlled the economy before, during and after WWII.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-22-2022, 08:20 AM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                      Ah, the no true communism fallacy
                      Correct there is no such as a true communism.
                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by seer View Post

                        The National Socialist German Workers Party, aka Nazi party...
                        Workers Party in name only. Nazi Germany remained as rigid dictatorship with command economy controlled by the same Industrial oligarchs before, during and after WWII.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          Workers Party in name only. Nazi Germany remained as rigid dictatorship with command economy controlled by the same Industrial oligarchs before, during and after WWII.
                          No different than the Communists. Rigid dictatorships with command economies, controlled by well rewarded party members.
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by seer View Post

                            That is nonsense, Marxism in practice always ends up in Communism and totalitarianism. Personal property rights and personal freedom is lost. Never mind the shed blood it took to get various populations to conform and kowtow. Unless you have counter examples. Hell you can say that Fascism is merely a way to organize a society. And every Marxist professor knows what the theory looks like in practice. So spare me...
                            The philosophy of Marxism was never the basis of the Soviet nor the Chinese economy nor government, which I described accurately in previous posts. It was a false appeal to involve the worker class. Marx never advocated a totalitarian 'command economy' government with the economy controlled by industrial oligarchs as has always existed in Russia, China and Germany.

                            Idealistic Marxist Revolutionary and political movements that appealed to the 'masses' was always taken over by more practical command economy governments controlled by Industrial oligarchs.

                            Actually we will likely never know what a Marxist economy looks like in practice but none actually ever existed, except for the Pan Canal Company government and economy which comes close.

                            Nordic countries are successful examples of a mix of socialist and capitalist economies with a democratic governments. The USA has socialist aspects of our government and society with Capitalism, but still the economy is overwhelmingly dominated by powerful Oligarchs with monopolistic control of many industries..
                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-22-2022, 08:44 AM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              Workers Party in name only. Nazi Germany remained as rigid dictatorship with command economy controlled by the same Industrial oligarchs before, during and after WWII.
                              Interesting view of the Weirmar Republic. It had a lot of problems but being a ruthless dictatorship is normally not one listed.

                              In any case, using your standard... Democrats. Democratic in name only. Won't even let the rank and file select their own candidate. The party elites rigged the primaries and debates so that it was "her turn" regardless if the membership agreed or not.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Can I please change the Thread Title to ----

                                "Commies and Nazis and Thugs - OH MY!"?



                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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