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Scientific American Goes Woke

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  • Scientific American Goes Woke

    There are too many examples in the piece to post here, but it is clear that identity/woke ideology is ruining science...

    Scientific American Goes Woke

    A case study in how identity politics poisons science

    By Michael Shermer

    Since then, I have received many queries about why my column ended and, more generally, about what has happened over at Scientific American, which historically focused primarily on science, technology, engineering and medicine (STEM), but now appears to be turning to social justice issues. There is, for example, the August 12, 2021 article on how “Modern Mathematics Confronts its White Patriarchal Past,” which asserts prima facie that the reason there are so few women and blacks in academic mathematics is because of misogyny and racism...

    Then there is the July 5, 2021 Scientific American article that “Denial of Evolution Is a Form of White Supremacy.” Because we are all from Africa and thus black, the author Allison Hopper avers, evolution deniers (AKA creationists) are ipso facto white supremacists. ...

    https://michaelshermer.substack.com/...ican-goes-woke
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Really sad. Just one stupid article poisons the barrel and I wouldn't trust anything published by SA again.

    Comment


    • #3
      As a scientist I would say that woke ideology is pretty low on the list of things ruining science. Numbers 1 through 10 would be lack of government funding. And most numbers after that would be nutty religious conservatives who don't know any science not being interested in things science has to say.

      Please don't pretend seer you are some sort of pro-science person who deeply cares about science, and so is naturally deeply concerned by threats it faces. You're just mildly more anti-woke than you are anti-science, and it's probably a close run thing.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post
        There are too many examples in the piece to post here, but it is clear that identity/woke ideology is ruining science...

        Scientific American Goes Woke
        Shermer, who is, btw, a liberal atheist and executive director of The Skeptics Society, is one of the few from that side who has been writing about the dangers of political correctness run amok (particularly the cancel culture and its desire to silence all opposing views) for awhile now. He published a book a couple of years ago called Giving the Devil his Due with the Devil here being a reference to the phrase "devil's advocate" in which he strenuously argues against the censorship that is becoming increasingly pervasive.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          As a scientist I would say that woke ideology is pretty low on the list of things ruining science. Numbers 1 through 10 would be lack of government funding. And most numbers after that would be nutty religious conservatives who don't know any science not being interested in things science has to say.

          Please don't pretend seer you are some sort of pro-science person who deeply cares about science, and so is naturally deeply concerned by threats it faces. You're just mildly more anti-woke than you are anti-science, and it's probably a close run thing.
          Science isn't "ruined" if it doesn't get government funded.

          It gets ruined when you let an ideology -- any ideology -- run roughshod over it.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Science isn't "ruined" if it doesn't get government funded.
            It gets ruined in the sense that it doesn't get done if it isn't funded. If most scientists lose their jobs due to cuts in funding then all the science they would have done then doesn't happen. In general I think the cut backs in science funding that have happened across the Western world in the last 20-30 years are mindblowingly insane because science is what's made the modern world such a great place to live and if you don't keep funding it you won't get improvements.

            It gets ruined when you let an ideology -- any ideology -- run roughshod over it.
            Sure, but science-denying bible thumpers have always been a bigger problem for science by orders of magnitude than anything liberals have ever done is.

            The OP complaint is basically that some guy had his column discontinued in a magazine. That's not the destruction of science. That's just normal editorial decisions. And a column in a magazine isn't science.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
              Please don't pretend seer you are some sort of pro-science person who deeply cares about science, and so is naturally deeply concerned by threats it faces. You're just mildly more anti-woke than you are anti-science, and it's probably a close run thing.
              How am I anti science? Be specific please...

              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                There are too many examples in the piece to post here, but it is clear that identity/woke ideology is ruining science...

                Scientific American Goes Woke
                It seems that science is more a religion than an academic pursuit these days. Perhaps it has always been that way and I just never noticed, but it has certainly become undeniably obvious in recent years.
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  It gets ruined in the sense that it doesn't get done if it isn't funded. If most scientists lose their jobs due to cuts in funding then all the science they would have done then doesn't happen. In general I think the cut backs in science funding that have happened across the Western world in the last 20-30 years are mindblowingly insane because science is what's made the modern world such a great place to live and if you don't keep funding it you won't get improvements.
                  That is just silly, I would say that most modern improvements were the results of men taking risks apart from government funding. Edison did not perfect the light bulb on the tax payer's dime.

                  Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    It gets ruined in the sense that it doesn't get done if it isn't funded. If most scientists lose their jobs due to cuts in funding then all the science they would have done then doesn't happen. In general I think the cut backs in science funding that have happened across the Western world in the last 20-30 years are mindblowingly insane because science is what's made the modern world such a great place to live and if you don't keep funding it you won't get improvements.
                    Science not getting done isn't as bad as bad science getting done.

                    Bad results based on ideology can do far more damage. Look at what the Soviets did to their agriculture thanks to Lysenko and his crazy ideas. They would have been FAR better off if nobody was conducting scientific researcher than promoting the drek that was being put out.

                    The same for Russian biology and genetics. Russia had some of the best programs in the world back in the early 20th century only for it to be ruined by ideology.


                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Sure, but science-denying bible thumpers have always been a bigger problem for science by orders of magnitude than anything liberals have ever done is.
                    In the past they were the biggest problem, but today -- the time we are dealing with -- the left has taken that crown.

                    There really isn't a field in science that their daft inanity isn't taking root. Even in fields like archaeology.

                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    The OP complaint is basically that some guy had his column discontinued in a magazine. That's not the destruction of science. That's just normal editorial decisions. And a column in a magazine isn't science.
                    Maybe it would be better to look at the reasons why it was discontinued. More woke cancel culture in action behind that normal editorial decision.


                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      It seems that science is more a religion than an academic pursuit these days. Perhaps it has always been that way and I just never noticed, but it has certainly become undeniably obvious in recent years.
                      Just a few years ago you would find scientists of all stripes celebrating the "purity" of science -- how it rises above ideology to examine the facts and evidence. I mean look at all the quotes I've posted several times from scientists talking about following the evidence wherever it led, regardless where it led and dismissing favorite theories as new evidence came along.

                      Sure, it wasn't as perfect as they might like to think, but it had a corrective system that could weed out things that slipped through -- namely that anyone could check the research for themselves to see if the conclusions are valid. If, for example, nobody can recreate the experiment, that experiment gets called into question and gets retracted.

                      But now you have leftwing ideology short circuiting everything. If you point out errors you can find yourself branded as a racist (or whatever is currently the popular thing to call someone you don't like), have funding cut, lose your position and generally silenced. You can even have research squelched because it could be deemed upsetting to various groups.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Just a few years ago you would find scientists of all stripes celebrating the "purity" of science -- how it rises above ideology to examine the facts and evidence. I mean look at all the quotes I've posted several times from scientists talking about following the evidence wherever it led, regardless where it led and dismissing favorite theories as new evidence came along.

                        Sure, it wasn't as perfect as they might like to think, but it had a corrective system that could weed out things that slipped through -- namely that anyone could check the research for themselves to see if the conclusions are valid. If, for example, nobody can recreate the experiment, that experiment gets called into question and gets retracted.

                        But now you have leftwing ideology short circuiting everything. If you point out errors you can find yourself branded as a racist (or whatever is currently the popular thing to call someone you don't like), have funding cut, lose your position and generally silenced. You can even have research squelched because it could be deemed upsetting to various groups.
                        They have already been doing that for decades when it comes to questioning AGW "science"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          As a scientist I would say that woke ideology is pretty low on the list of things ruining science. Numbers 1 through 10 would be lack of government funding. And most numbers after that would be nutty religious conservatives who don't know any science not being interested in things science has to say.

                          Please don't pretend seer you are some sort of pro-science person who deeply cares about science, and so is naturally deeply concerned by threats it faces. You're just mildly more anti-woke than you are anti-science, and it's probably a close run thing.
                          Nutty woke leftists think science is about funding.

                          ​​​​​

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                            Really sad. Just one stupid article poisons the barrel and I wouldn't trust anything published by SA again.
                            It is not a poisoned article. It is in fact relevant today as to wide spread rejection of evolution, global warming, and including Covid 19 conspiracies. These indeed represent legitimate consideration of anti-science beliefs among right wing conservatives in the USA. Also including other conspiracies advocated by Trump and, Alex Jones and Qanon popular among Republicans,
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                              It is not a poisoned article. It is in fact relevant today as to wide spread rejection of evolution, global warming, and including Covid 19 conspiracies. These indeed represent legitimate consideration of anti-science beliefs among right wing conservatives in the USA. Also including other conspiracies advocated by Trump and, Alex Jones and Qanon popular among Republicans,
                              Equating mathematics and creationism with "white supremacy" is pure idiocy. And it is poison. If this is what SA sees fit to publish then they aren't worth bothering with.

                              Comment

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