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  • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

    So all you are doing is speculating on what other people might or might do and think?

    Thank you for those insightful comments.
    Dead certainty...hence law of large numbers. Besides, its no different than Eva Braun commenting on the spending of random people in a foreign nation all because she has an inbuilt prejudice against something.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      I never bought any flowers to lay as a tribute for the late queen.
      Quite obviously NOT what I asked, but everybody can see your cowardly little dodging, so...
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Quite obviously NOT what I asked, but everybody can see your cowardly little dodging, so...
        Notice how quickly she got angry and upset when I pointed out that there would obviously be spending that she does that someone would find frivilous

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Quite obviously NOT what I asked, but everybody can see your cowardly little dodging, so...
          My own comment on money being better spent on a charitable donation rather than floral tributes seems to have led to several individuals having metaphorical issues with their underwear.

          And it is all rather a herd thing, isn't it? Rather like the food offerings. One person does something and others imitate and, more significantly given the photographs taken as many laid their tributes, have to be seen to be doing so.

          We are [to some extent] back to my comments on the Roadside Memorials thread.

          In this recent event we witnessed the need for many to be at the places the deceased visited or where they resided. The need to leave votive offerings of flowers, food, toys, etc in those places. The need to make obeisance to or show reverence towards the corpse itself, which involved a degree of personal discomfort [queuing through the night] which phenomenon was frequently referred to as a pilgrimage. We did not actually witness the cult of relics but I suspect given the chance many would have liked a piece of the cloth covering the coffin, or a piece of the catafalque itself

          Such behaviours go back a very long way

          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            My own comment on money being better spent on a charitable donation rather than floral tributes seems to have led to several individuals having metaphorical issues with their underwear.

            And it is all rather a herd thing, isn't it? Rather like the food offerings. One person does something and others imitate and, more significantly given the photographs taken as many laid their tributes, have to be seen to be doing so.

            We are [to some extent] back to my comments on the Roadside Memorials thread.

            In this recent event we witnessed the need for many to be at the places the deceased visited or where they resided. The need to leave votive offerings of flowers, food, toys, etc in those places. The need to make obeisance to or show reverence towards the corpse itself, which involved a degree of personal discomfort [queuing through the night] which phenomenon was frequently referred to as a pilgrimage. We did not actually witness the cult of relics but I suspect given the chance many would have liked a piece of the cloth covering the coffin, or a piece of the catafalque itself

            Such behaviours go back a very long way
            The only one who lost their composure was you, Frivilous Eva. (And Frankly, the thought of a Ms. Havisham losing her underwear is disgusting, so I won't use that idiom)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              Do not write nonsense or make stupid claims about something of which you know nothing.
              Yeah CD! Only Hypatia is allowed to do that!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                Do not write nonsense or make stupid claims about something of which you know nothing.
                [ cough sputter ] Texas Bounty Hunter [ cough ]
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  [ cough sputter ] Texas Bounty Hunter [ cough ]
                  [*cough*] food banks [*cough*]

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    [ cough sputter ] Texas Bounty Hunter [ cough ]
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    [*cough*] food banks [*cough*]
                    Aren't they the same?

                    And now we can add Original Sin.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post


                      Aren't they the same?

                      And now we can add Original Sin.
                      Exactly the same. Only different.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Apparently Charles III plans on repeating what was done with Edward VIII after he abdicated, to his son, Harry. He's going to "exile" him from Britain.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • And now we have the suggestion that the late queen should become a saint.

                          Charles Moore is a fairly recent covert to Catholicism and many may know the saying about the zeal of converts.

                          He is also noted by many for being an idiotic chinless wonder but is this going too far, even for British monarchists?

                          https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...e-made-a-saint

                          If this were a Catholic country, up would go the cry for canonisation. When Pope John Paul II died, the crowds in St Peter’s Square shouted ‘Santo subito!’ And the Polish Pope was indeed made a saint with unusual speed. What about St Elizabeth, with Windsor as her Compostela? Well, we are not a Catholic country, and if we were, Elizabeth II would never have become our Queen. She clearly did, however, possess the first of the two formal qualifications for sainthood, what the Church calls ‘heroic virtue’. The second is to prove two miracles effected by intercession to the person concerned. This can take time, but the world is already full of people who believe the late Queen cured them of this or that. As her cult grows, plenty of posthumous examples will come forward. The Church of England, of which she was Supreme Governor, has an odd position on sainthood. It accepts pre-Reformation canonisations but has never tried to add to their number (with one important and controversial exception – King Charles the Martyr). If it were minded to do so, this is its best possible moment to start. Admittedly, the person in all the world least likely to have approved of such a proceeding would have been Elizabeth herself. But then, the sort of person who wants to be a saint is the sort who must not be made one.

                          I already know personally of one example where the Queen, after death, made a difference. My cousin, Tom Oliver, has long suffered from exceptional anxiety about catching illnesses. He worked hard, usually successfully, in managing this, and leads an active, fruitful life; but his worry was worsened by Covid, particularly because he is diabetic and because he was engaged in major commitments which would burden his wife if he died or was incapacitated. Until this week, Tom had had almost no direct human contact, except with immediate family, for more than 29 months. He decided, however, that he really should witness the lying-in-state. He travelled up from rural Herefordshire, and queued among the crowds of thousands, for 15 hours, never sitting down. He reached Westminster Hall well after night had fallen, and viewed the coffin. Behold, he tells me, the wonderful experience of grace cast out his fear. He is left with its rational aspects, but finds that what he calls ‘the sense of irrational jeopardy’ has gone. He quotes the line from the hymn, ‘The prisoner leaps to loose his chains’.

                          When the word ‘diversity’ is used, it is often a code word for people in a predominantly white society who have black or brown skin, but the definition should surely go wider. The most important example of this in the Queen’s funeral was the man who so beautifully organised its military aspects, Christopher Ghika, Major-General commanding the Household Division. He is a Romanian prince and the great-grandson of the legendary Princess Marthe Bibesco. He is a British citizen because George VI gave shelter to his grandfather during the war, allowing him to keep his princely title. Gen. Ghika does not use the title, but his gratitude to the King is expressed in this last service he performed for his elder daughter. His follows the classic pattern of so many immigration stories, if at an unusually rarefied level.

                          Much has been said about the late Queen’s love of dogs and horses, less about the more general fact that she was a countrywoman. Almost everyone is either a town mouse or a country one, and she was the latter. This was always a source of comfort to rural people all over the nation, particularly in an age when hardly any powerful people have a close connection with the land. Of the six British prime ministers who attended the Queen’s funeral, only one, David Cameron, would identify as a country mouse. The good news, however, is that the new King is equally a champion of rural life. Indeed, he supports it, from Truro to Transylvania, with an ardour which was foreign to his mother’s character. Country people could have no stronger or higher-placed friend at court.

                          I have been studying Sir Arthur Penn’s manuscript account of the death of George VI in 1952. The future Charles III, aged three, was at Sandringham with his parents once they had hurried back from Kenya, after hearing the news of her father’s demise. The bearer party of Guards for the coffin were staying at York House on the estate to rehearse. The Prince, wearing a ‘ruby-coloured velveteen’ outfit and a deerstalker, went, under Penn’s care, to see them. The ‘huge men’ gathered and stood before the tiny boy. At his request, they put on their bearskins, greatcoats and belts, and presented their rifles. Satisfied, ‘the inspecting officer withdrew with a low bow’. I wonder if, 70 years later, standing beside his mother’s bearer party, the new King remembered this first encounter with death and succession.

                          Penn was private secretary to the new Queen’s mother, Queen Elizabeth. When Elizabeth II and Prince Philip reached Sandringham, Penn ‘bowed over her hand and kissed it for the first time’, saying, ‘God bless Your Majesty always.’ ‘“Thank you, Arthur”, she said, in that clear voice which I have known so well since she could only lisp with it. I felt strangely moved.’ Penn added that ‘The Queen and even more, Prince Philip, are bursting with new ideas, as they should be.’ He made it a rule ‘to criticise nothing solely because it was new’. This would be a good rule to re-apply now, after almost three-quarters of a century.

                          Walking through Green Park earlier in the week, weaving my way through the bunches of flowers, I imagined myself as a visitor who had heard no news. Why, I might have asked myself, is everyone so upset about the death of a small bear with a red hat?
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            And now we have the suggestion that the late queen should become a saint.

                            Charles Moore is a fairly recent covert to Catholicism and many may know the saying about the zeal of converts.

                            He is also noted by many for being an idiotic chinless wonder but is this going too far, even for British monarchists?

                            https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...e-made-a-saint

                            If this were a Catholic country, up would go the cry for canonisation. When Pope John Paul II died, the crowds in St Peter’s Square shouted ‘Santo subito!’ And the Polish Pope was indeed made a saint with unusual speed. What about St Elizabeth, with Windsor as her Compostela? Well, we are not a Catholic country, and if we were, Elizabeth II would never have become our Queen. She clearly did, however, possess the first of the two formal qualifications for sainthood, what the Church calls ‘heroic virtue’. The second is to prove two miracles effected by intercession to the person concerned. This can take time, but the world is already full of people who believe the late Queen cured them of this or that. As her cult grows, plenty of posthumous examples will come forward. The Church of England, of which she was Supreme Governor, has an odd position on sainthood. It accepts pre-Reformation canonisations but has never tried to add to their number (with one important and controversial exception – King Charles the Martyr). If it were minded to do so, this is its best possible moment to start. Admittedly, the person in all the world least likely to have approved of such a proceeding would have been Elizabeth herself. But then, the sort of person who wants to be a saint is the sort who must not be made one.

                            I already know personally of one example where the Queen, after death, made a difference. My cousin, Tom Oliver, has long suffered from exceptional anxiety about catching illnesses. He worked hard, usually successfully, in managing this, and leads an active, fruitful life; but his worry was worsened by Covid, particularly because he is diabetic and because he was engaged in major commitments which would burden his wife if he died or was incapacitated. Until this week, Tom had had almost no direct human contact, except with immediate family, for more than 29 months. He decided, however, that he really should witness the lying-in-state. He travelled up from rural Herefordshire, and queued among the crowds of thousands, for 15 hours, never sitting down. He reached Westminster Hall well after night had fallen, and viewed the coffin. Behold, he tells me, the wonderful experience of grace cast out his fear. He is left with its rational aspects, but finds that what he calls ‘the sense of irrational jeopardy’ has gone. He quotes the line from the hymn, ‘The prisoner leaps to loose his chains’.

                            When the word ‘diversity’ is used, it is often a code word for people in a predominantly white society who have black or brown skin, but the definition should surely go wider. The most important example of this in the Queen’s funeral was the man who so beautifully organised its military aspects, Christopher Ghika, Major-General commanding the Household Division. He is a Romanian prince and the great-grandson of the legendary Princess Marthe Bibesco. He is a British citizen because George VI gave shelter to his grandfather during the war, allowing him to keep his princely title. Gen. Ghika does not use the title, but his gratitude to the King is expressed in this last service he performed for his elder daughter. His follows the classic pattern of so many immigration stories, if at an unusually rarefied level.

                            Much has been said about the late Queen’s love of dogs and horses, less about the more general fact that she was a countrywoman. Almost everyone is either a town mouse or a country one, and she was the latter. This was always a source of comfort to rural people all over the nation, particularly in an age when hardly any powerful people have a close connection with the land. Of the six British prime ministers who attended the Queen’s funeral, only one, David Cameron, would identify as a country mouse. The good news, however, is that the new King is equally a champion of rural life. Indeed, he supports it, from Truro to Transylvania, with an ardour which was foreign to his mother’s character. Country people could have no stronger or higher-placed friend at court.

                            I have been studying Sir Arthur Penn’s manuscript account of the death of George VI in 1952. The future Charles III, aged three, was at Sandringham with his parents once they had hurried back from Kenya, after hearing the news of her father’s demise. The bearer party of Guards for the coffin were staying at York House on the estate to rehearse. The Prince, wearing a ‘ruby-coloured velveteen’ outfit and a deerstalker, went, under Penn’s care, to see them. The ‘huge men’ gathered and stood before the tiny boy. At his request, they put on their bearskins, greatcoats and belts, and presented their rifles. Satisfied, ‘the inspecting officer withdrew with a low bow’. I wonder if, 70 years later, standing beside his mother’s bearer party, the new King remembered this first encounter with death and succession.

                            Penn was private secretary to the new Queen’s mother, Queen Elizabeth. When Elizabeth II and Prince Philip reached Sandringham, Penn ‘bowed over her hand and kissed it for the first time’, saying, ‘God bless Your Majesty always.’ ‘“Thank you, Arthur”, she said, in that clear voice which I have known so well since she could only lisp with it. I felt strangely moved.’ Penn added that ‘The Queen and even more, Prince Philip, are bursting with new ideas, as they should be.’ He made it a rule ‘to criticise nothing solely because it was new’. This would be a good rule to re-apply now, after almost three-quarters of a century.

                            Walking through Green Park earlier in the week, weaving my way through the bunches of flowers, I imagined myself as a visitor who had heard no news. Why, I might have asked myself, is everyone so upset about the death of a small bear with a red hat?
                            Free speech in the UK?
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              Free speech in the UK?
                              I understand even fools and the misguided are allowed to make their views known. Speaker's Corner at Hyde Park on a Sunday morning can be high entertaining.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                                I understand even fools and the misguided are allowed to make their views known. Speaker's Corner at Hyde Park on a Sunday morning can be high entertaining.
                                Apparently not during Elizabeth's funeral.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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