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A Bidentastic week and Trump's very bad one

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    Along with the addition of tens of thousands of new IRS agents to "recover" taxes from hard-working US citizens. Of course Joe pinky swears that they won't be going after anybody making less than $400,000 a year, but statistically, 90% of those audited by the IRS each year earn less than $400,000.
    IRS enforcement was previously recouping 12x the money spent on enforcement from people who weren't paying their taxes correctly. The Republicans, at the behest of their rich donors, went after the IRS enforcement viciously and almost completely gutted it, ensuring that the IRS did not have the resources to audit anyone who's taxes were complicated (ie. the rich donors). What very little enforcement was left was stuck auditing only poor people because they had simple tax returns. The Dems have been annoyed about this for some time, and want the rich people hiding their taxes to be properly audited again. So this bill tries to correct the Republican's previous sociopathy.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
      I'd love to have more taxation for the rich in NZ and more enforcement of that.

      As a salary worker in NZ, there's not much I can do to avoid tax, and not much tax workers could do to affect me. Me filing my tax returns was literally me logging into the website and seeing already listed my total income and total taxes paid on it, and clicking "okay", and that was it. Took less than 5 minutes.
      You know who gets taken to court by the tax collectors? It's not the rich who can afford to fight them, it's the middle class who will put up the least resistance.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        Do you honestly believe you'd require 87,000 new employees to audit "the rich"?
        Sure.

        Do you work for the government there?
        No.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          IRS enforcement was previously recouping 12x the money spent on enforcement from people who weren't paying their taxes correctly. The Republicans, at the behest of their rich donors, went after the IRS enforcement viciously and almost completely gutted it, ensuring that the IRS did not have the resources to audit anyone who's taxes were complicated (ie. the rich donors). What very little enforcement was left was stuck auditing only poor people because they had simple tax returns. The Dems have been annoyed about this for some time, and want the rich people hiding their taxes to be properly audited again. So this bill tries to correct the Republican's previous sociopathy.
          You know nothing about how our IRS works. We have a cottage industry here that settles IRS debt for us poor schlubs in the middle class. The rich are routinely audited already, as are most large businesses. This is just Dems building their Stasi to squeeze every penny out of the middle class for their spending free for all.
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          - Stephen R. Donaldson

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            The rich are routinely audited already..."
            Keen to see your evidence of this, cheers.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

              You know nothing about how our IRS works. We have a cottage industry here that settles IRS debt for us poor schlubs in the middle class. The rich are routinely audited already, as are most large businesses. This is just Dems building their Stasi to squeeze every penny out of the middle class for their spending free for all.
              I've been audited three times. The first was a wash, the second time was a haggle session, and the third time I won.

              The haggle session was quite unexpected. I had ignorantly claimed business miles on my taxes - at the same time I received a car allowance from my company. I was 25 at the time and didn't know. When the IRS told me I owed them (approximately) $800, I protested. I stomped my feet and threw a fit. Surprisingly, the agent came back and said it had been adjusted to $400-something. I still claimed I was being persecuted, and they actually lowered it to $257.00. I don't know how they came up with that. So I figured "Hey, I can haggle these guys down to zero!" So I tried all my protestations again. This time a supervisor came on the phone and said I will pay the $257 or he would bring it back to the original $800. I conceded at that point.

              I never knew the IRS would haggle, though.
              "You should just assume going forward that if I am ever wrong it is a typo" - Backup
              "
              Reality simply does not change based upon consensus or desire." - rogue

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                This is just Dems building their Stasi to squeeze every penny out of the middle class for their spending free for all.
                I would be the first to support moving taxation off the middle class and onto the rich.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Zara View Post

                  Keen to see your evidence of this, cheers.
                  It's common sense. Billionaires and millionaires, unless they're engaged in criminal activity and laundering their money, don't get paid cash under the table or money that's not reported. IRS already knows what the rich are doing. 80k extra agents means the IRS is coming after the working class folks who likely don't report their earnings.
                  "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dimbilb View Post
                    I would be the first to support moving taxation off the middle class and onto the rich.
                    The wealthiest Americans are already paying more than their fair share.

                    The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earners—those who earned more than $540,000—earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

                    Over time, high-income Americans have shouldered a larger and larger share of the cost of government. Even the 2017 tax cuts—reviled by the political left—reduced tax bills for the lowest-income Americans by 10% while only cutting taxes for the top 1% by 0.04%. After the tax cuts, the rich pay a larger—not smaller—share of income taxes.

                    In fact, by almost every measure, the U.S. has one of the most progressive systems of taxation in the world, in which high-income people pay the highest tax rates.

                    https://www.heritage.org/taxes/comme...rich-pay-taxes

                    Only the most myopic of liberals would believe that Joe's new army of armed IRS agents will be targeting the wealthy.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      The wealthiest Americans are already paying more than their fair share.

                      The latest government data show that in 2018, the top 1% of income earners—those who earned more than $540,000—earned 21% of all U.S. income while paying 40% of all federal income taxes. The top 10% earned 48% of the income and paid 71% of federal income taxes.

                      Over time, high-income Americans have shouldered a larger and larger share of the cost of government. Even the 2017 tax cuts—reviled by the political left—reduced tax bills for the lowest-income Americans by 10% while only cutting taxes for the top 1% by 0.04%. After the tax cuts, the rich pay a larger—not smaller—share of income taxes.

                      In fact, by almost every measure, the U.S. has one of the most progressive systems of taxation in the world, in which high-income people pay the highest tax rates.

                      https://www.heritage.org/taxes/comme...rich-pay-taxes

                      Only the most myopic of liberals would believe that Joe's new army of armed IRS agents will be targeting the wealthy.
                      They actually think millionaires like Pelosi and Schumer are going to stick up for the little guy and come after their own wealthy class. They think billionaires are going to save us from climate change and make our lives better because they're so moral and upstanding. How naive and ignorant about the system do you have to be to fall for that claptrap? It's really sad.
                      "What am I doing here?" -- Joe Biden 2021

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by seanD View Post

                        True (it was being done under Obama), but increasing their numbers is new, and the animosity between political parties is unprecedented.
                        Have you seen their jobs posting and what they're looking for?


                        298835170_6027555403938957_6389060592220658662_n.jpg
                        The qualifications needed to be an IRS agent in old Joe's America


                        I had a friend back in the 90s who was an IRS agent. He would beg me not to tell anyone because if folks know you become a social pariah. But this was back when what the IRS wanted were folks with experience in bookkeeping and accounting. You know, to do audits and stuff. I cannot even imagine Conrad dressed in all black, wearing body armor and carrying a rifle.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Have you seen their jobs posting and what they're looking for?


                          298835170_6027555403938957_6389060592220658662_n.jpg
                          The qualifications needed to be an IRS agent in old Joe's America


                          I had a friend back in the 90s who was an IRS agent. He would beg me not to tell anyone because if folks know you become a social pariah. But this was back when what the IRS wanted were folks with experience in bookkeeping and accounting. You know, to do audits and stuff. I cannot even imagine Conrad dressed in all black, wearing body armor and carrying a rifle.
                          This picture reeks of manipulative posting. Notice, the picture doesn't have a full URL (just jobs.irs.gov). The picture doesn't list the actual job that those duties refer to. This means validating the picture is incredibly hard to do independently.

                          For the record, here is a link to "Internal Revenue Agent" (Notice, the application uses USAjobs.gov, the official website for government jobs)

                          Source: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/670234300?PostingChannelID=


                          Internal Revenue Agent

                          DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

                          Internal Revenue Service

                          ....

                          Duties


                          WHAT IS THE TAX EXEMPT/GOVERNMENT ENTITIESDIVISION?
                          A description of the business units can be found at: https://www.jobs.irs.gov/about/who/business-divisions

                          Vacancies will be filled in the following specialty areas:
                          Tax Exempt and Government Entities Exempt Organizations and Government Entities, EO Examinations and EO Rulings and Agreements

                          The following are the duties of this position at the full working level. If this vacancy includes more than one grade and you are selected at a lower grade level, you will have the opportunity to learn to perform these duties and receive training to help you grow in this position.

                          • Independently conducts examination of large exempt organizations and related business entities and makes determinations on initial and continuing exempt status of these organizations. Provides technical advice and assistance on exemptions to organization representatives and other service employees.
                          • Adapts standard audit and investigative procedures, relying on similar but not identical precedents as necessary for the examination of large and complex exempt organizations such as private foundations and cooperatives which operate multiple business entities or which generate income unrelated to the exempt purpose.
                          • Reviews exempt organizations financial and other operating data as well as related records of business operations intended to further exempt purposes and income sources unrelated to exempt activity.
                          • Devises detailed plan for audits and makes necessary revisions after initiating contacts and studying preliminary findings. Exercises alertness in detecting indications of fraud during course of the examination.
                          • Performs research and analysis to establish proper interpretation and application of tax regulations in cases which are similar but not identical with well precedented cases.

                          © Copyright Original Source

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

                            This picture reeks of manipulative posting. Notice, the picture doesn't have a full URL (just jobs.irs.gov). The picture doesn't list the actual job that those duties refer to. This means validating the picture is incredibly hard to do independently.

                            For the record, here is a link to "Internal Revenue Agent" (Notice, the application uses USAjobs.gov, the official website for government jobs)

                            Source: https://www.usajobs.gov/job/670234300?PostingChannelID=


                            Internal Revenue Agent

                            DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

                            Internal Revenue Service

                            ....

                            Duties


                            WHAT IS THE TAX EXEMPT/GOVERNMENT ENTITIESDIVISION?
                            A description of the business units can be found at: https://www.jobs.irs.gov/about/who/business-divisions

                            Vacancies will be filled in the following specialty areas:
                            Tax Exempt and Government Entities Exempt Organizations and Government Entities, EO Examinations and EO Rulings and Agreements

                            The following are the duties of this position at the full working level. If this vacancy includes more than one grade and you are selected at a lower grade level, you will have the opportunity to learn to perform these duties and receive training to help you grow in this position.

                            • Independently conducts examination of large exempt organizations and related business entities and makes determinations on initial and continuing exempt status of these organizations. Provides technical advice and assistance on exemptions to organization representatives and other service employees.
                            • Adapts standard audit and investigative procedures, relying on similar but not identical precedents as necessary for the examination of large and complex exempt organizations such as private foundations and cooperatives which operate multiple business entities or which generate income unrelated to the exempt purpose.
                            • Reviews exempt organizations financial and other operating data as well as related records of business operations intended to further exempt purposes and income sources unrelated to exempt activity.
                            • Devises detailed plan for audits and makes necessary revisions after initiating contacts and studying preliminary findings. Exercises alertness in detecting indications of fraud during course of the examination.
                            • Performs research and analysis to establish proper interpretation and application of tax regulations in cases which are similar but not identical with well precedented cases.

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            The posting got taken down after the blowback it got.

                            Here's the current posting.

                            If you paste that into archive.org, you can find the original posting with "deadly force" language.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Here's the actual listing:

                              https://www.jobs.irs.gov/resources/j...-special-agent

                              irs.jpg

                              My hunch is that they eliminated the bullet point about a willingness to use deadly force because it was drawing too much unwanted attention, but that requirement is still implied in what's left.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                                Here's the actual listing:

                                https://www.jobs.irs.gov/resources/j...-special-agent

                                irs.jpg

                                My hunch is that they eliminated the bullet point about a willingness to use deadly force because it was drawing too much unwanted attention, but that requirement is still implied in what's left.
                                For someone working the criminal enforcement side, such a requirement isn't all that shocking, nor outrageous. This is NOT your run of the mill IRS agent. He's not an auditor, etc. So, TBH, I feel this thing is overblown, and deliberately taken out of context

                                Comment

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