The Orbanisation of America

[NorrinRadd]

“Far-right European racist and anti-Semite strongman, the Trojan horse of Putin, holds speech at conservative conference.” -- Transcript.

[NorrinRadd]

Tucker Carlson is supposed to be some sort of barometer for conservatives? And his "fawning" means conservatives want an authoritarian ruler? Ummm .... ok .....



You watch too much TV. The opinions of Carlson and Maddow mean nothing.

Tucker is the biggest gun on Fox. He's also kind of a one-off. No one else on the channel takes quite the same approach to conservatism. For good or ill, Steve Bannon considers Fox to be mostly a lost cause, but that Tucker is doing a good job. (That's what I hear from my best friend, who doesn't get Fox, but regularly watches the War Room.)

Once upon a time, back in the Bushazoic Era, TC was a fairly typical conservative. When it turned out there were no significant WMDs, no "yellow cake," but there were multiple "surges" and quagmire, the Karzai government turned out to be a corrupt debacle, the Patriot Act came to be abused the way libertarians warned, etc., he rethought things. Many of us did, but IMO, he had a much more radical shift in thinking.

[CivilDiscourse]

The appeal to "traditional values" [always a good phrase among the Right] taps into existing prejudices and biases. We are the ones who have the true and correct attitude and beliefs. They do not.

Sounds like how many progressives think, only instead of "traditional values" it's "progress"

[rogue06]

Tucker Carlson recently spent a week in Hungary fawning over Orban and telling his viewers what a great job Orban was doing. Orban in turn praised Tucker and said that Tucker's show should be on air 24/7. So the US conservatives' relationship with Orban goes beyond him happening to be one speaker at CPAC.

I note, by contrast, Rachael Maddow never went to Venezuela or Cuba for a week to rave about the wonderous job dictators there were doing. The Dems never invited those dictators to come speak at major Dem conferences. The US right's current love of dictators is quite unique. And, as I mentioned earlier, it's not confined to Orban: Prior to the Ukraine invasion there was a love for Putin, and people in this forum were cheering the Myanmar military's overthrow of their democratic government - there's a clear love of dictatorship on the US right so long as the dictators lean right-wing. And that is not matched by any love of dictators among the US left.

Might not be Maddow but over the decades there have been numerous cozy interviews by various network reporters with Castro. I remember one case where the person got sent back because the original interview was such a puff piece.

[rogue06]

Tucker is the biggest gun on Fox. He's also kind of a one-off. No one else on the channel takes quite the same approach to conservatism. For good or ill, Steve Bannon considers Fox to be mostly a lost cause, but that Tucker is doing a good job. (That's what I hear from my best friend, who doesn't get Fox, but regularly watches the War Room.)

Once upon a time, back in the Bushazoic Era, TC was a fairly typical conservative. When it turned out there were no significant WMDs, no "yellow cake," but there were multiple "surges" and quagmire, the Karzai government turned out to be a corrupt debacle, the Patriot Act came to be abused the way libertarians warned, etc., he rethought things. Many of us did, but IMO, he had a much more radical shift in thinking.

Point of fact, fairly large supplies of mustard gas (and IIRC some Sarin) were uncovered in Iraq. Those are WMD. But, they were old and had deteriorated (the stuff has a shelf life).

[Starlight]

Sounds like how many progressives think, only instead of "traditional values" it's "progress"

Yes I think a problem with the analyses HA has been posting is they don't do much to distinguish US progressivism from US conservatism, and in failing to do so they miss some fundamental political ideas.

The underlying fundamental of left-wing politics is opposition to the elites and wanting more equality of power and wealth, seeking to distribute power among all the people. Any definition of 'populism' which conflates that core left-wing goal of actual populism, with the right-wing's occasional fake populism, is problematic. The right-wing's tendency to find charismatic billionaire/millionaire elites (e.g. Trump, Tucker etc) who trick their followers into thinking that society's ills aren't caused by those with money and power who control society but are instead caused by some disliked minority group with no money and no power (e.g. immigrants, transgender people etc), and that the solution is to give elites tax cuts and deregulation, and to crack down hard on the disliked minority groups... is a very different type of 'populism' to the left-wing's idea of actually wanting to oppose elites and help the masses.

Unfortunately it's a common take by champagne-drinking centrist elites to look down their noses at both those groups and say that everything's fine, and that therefore the leftist progressives are terrible for trying to take some of the wealth and power away from those elites and share it with the commoners, and that the right-wing demagogues are terrible for demonizing the harmless minorities with no money and no power. The centrist elites have a tendency to call both 'populism' and oppose both, but they are two very different phenomena. Unfortunately at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, if those champagne drinking elitist centrists are forced to pick a side, they tend to selfishly prefer the right-wing demagogues who are hurting harmless minorities with no money and no power over the left wing progressives who would cause the elitist centrists themselves to have to share some of their money and power with the masses.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Sounds like how many progressives think, only instead of "traditional values" it's "progress"

It can work both ways but an appeal to "tradition" and "traditional values" are generally more popular among the Right with the harking back to some rose-tinted lost past that can be recaptured if only certain policies were to be adopted.

[Maranatha]

Orban spoke at CPAC.

It’s what you vote for but I wonder if it’s what you really want. Is there awareness among Christians of where you are headed?

Umm, heaven?

Perhaps you've not heard of it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Umm, heaven?

Perhaps you've not heard of it.

Ah the "Jam tomorrow" attitude.

[Maranatha]

Ah the "Jam tomorrow" attitude.

Nah, they asked where I'm headed. No doubt the most appropriate answer as a Christian is heaven.

As a Christian the question makes no sense, christian is not a political party.

He also asked me what I want, what I really really want, but it's not this, it's not any of this.

As a conservative, do I want to go in this direction? What did the man say that I should fear?

[NorrinRadd]

As a conservative, do I want to go in this direction? What did the man say that I should fear?

Nothing. The issue is not what he says, it's what he does. But I don't know who to trust on that. There seems to be some consensus that he's a Bad Guy, but mostly among the "Trump is de debbil!" crowd.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Nah, they asked where I'm headed. No doubt the most appropriate answer as a Christian is heaven.

To travel hopefully etc.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

That’s not what I am asking. Rather, now that you know what the New Right stands for, do you stand with them?

Not my own but an interesting "tweet"

When people like Viktor Orban, Steve Bannon, Douglas Murray & Nigel Farage say "Judeo-Christian values must be defended", or they are "under attack from western liberals", they're mobilising discourse & rhetoric strategically deployed by all fascists throughout history.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Cute the way the leftard infidel quotes the leftist Wokiepedia to define what right-thinkers believe.

Heaven forfend!

[Sparko]

I find it hilarious that the left accuses the right of fascism when they are the ones who continuously try to limit or stop free speech and force their values on everyone, destroying and "cancelling" anyone who doesn't comply.