Stasi Raid Mar-a-Lago

[Mountain Man]

That's irrelevant here. And not just because Trump's team refuses to claim Trump declassified the documents. But because Cannon lacked any jurisdiction in this case.
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The United States argues that the district court likely erred in exercising its jurisdiction [...] We agree.

The ruling is restricted to the actual motion, but the "equitable jurisdiction" allowing her to insert herself into the case in any fashion depends on the first Richey factor, "callous disregard."
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Here, the district court concluded that Plaintiff did not show that the United States acted in callous disregard of his constitutional rights.

That's Cannon herself stipulating that Trump's team failed to show cause for her to intervene. The 11th Circuit's response signals that Cannon's order appointing a special master is similarly likely to fall if appealed. It says that all of her orders on this case are likely to fall if appealed. Because she did not have equitable jurisdiction.

Again, the Supreme Court will have the final say, and the central point will be whether or not the president has the ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit.

[firstfloor]

We'll have to wait and see what the Supreme Court says, because that's where this case is ultimately headed. The key question is whether or not a president's order to declassify can be refused or overturned.

Face the facts. Trump is a lair.

But in an interview that aired late Wednesday, Mr. Trump made the extraordinary claim — not advanced by his own lawyers or supported by prior practice or legal precedent — that he had the right as president to declassify documents by wordlessly willing it to be so.

“You can declassify just by saying ‘it’s declassified,’ even by thinking about it,” Mr. Trump told Sean Hannity on Fox News.

I don’t know what Hannity said about that - perhaps along the lines of ‘whatever you say your Majesty.’

[Juvenal]

Hoffman Estates is a facility leased and controlled by the Obama Foundation.

The building, not the records stored there.

The 2018 letter states the Foundation's intent to transfer classified and unclassified documents to a facility controlled by the National Archives that meets their criteria for document storage, the obvious implication being that the Hoffman Estates was not such a facility.

All presidential records in all presidential libraries are owned and controlled by NARA, and there's no reason to assume this was not the case at Hoffman Estates as well. Presidential libraries are deliberately set up as public/private enterprises, with NARA administrators staffing facilities built and maintained by the former presidents.

Look, I understand that your and Stoic's knee jerk reaction is to jump to Obama's defense, but there's nothing to be alarmed about here.

Again, I am not the partisan you're looking for. Facts may be more or less embarrassing to political positions, but are not themselves a function of political position.

This is all a normal part of the negotiations between a former president and the National Archives. It's not a big deal. What is not normal is for the DOJ and FBI to use a mundane dispute between a former president and the National Archives as a pretext to raid that former president's private residence and run off with anything they can get their hands on.

It's entirely normal for a former president to negotiate loans of materials owned and controlled by NARA for the purpose of public display in their presidential libraries.

What's not normal is for a former president to have highly classified documents illegally withheld from NARA commingled with news clippings in a box in his office closet at a resort facility open to the public, after being advised by his own lawyers that he was placing himself in legal peril by retaining them, after surrendering some but not all in response to a year of requests by NARA, after surrendering more but not all in response to a subpoena, creating a need to send in the FBI to retrieve the rest.

He could coughed them up in January, or in June even, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

And it's still an open question whether we've got them all back. Are there more boxes in New Bedford? Trump's filing system is the redheaded lovechild of a hot mess and a dumpster fire.

Earlier, Sparko took offense to the idea that privileged documents wouldn't have been segregated at Mar a Lago.

You may now admire my restraint in withholding this long the inevitable, "I told you so.'

[Juvenal]

Again, the Supreme Court will have the final say, and the central point will be whether or not the president has the ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit.

$50 says his current lawyers will never claim he declassified the documents in court. Six month limit. Up for it?

[Mountain Man]

We'll see have to wait for the Supreme Court to make their decision, but I suspect they will determine that a president has broad discretionary authority when it comes to classification.

[Ronson]

Didn't Trump state that the GSA filled the boxes that he took to Mar-a-Lago? Or some other agency? I can't imagine Trump loaded them up himself.

[firstfloor]

We'll see have to wait for the Supreme Court to make their decision, but I suspect they will determine that a president has broad discretionary authority when it comes to classification.

So what?
An FPOTUS could not classify a pile of horsie poo. If documents were declassified while he was in office they would be marked accordingly.

If Trump has nothing to indicate that he intended to declassify stuff, a record of an order, say, then he just looks like the bare faced liar he is.

[Stoic]

Again, the Supreme Court will have the final say, and the central point will be whether or not the president has the ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit.

Actually, the president's ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit is a bit of a problem for Trump. Because of the manner he saw fit, that is.

I determined that the materials in that binder should be declassified to the maximum extent possible. In response, and as part of the iterative process of the declassification review, under a cover letter dated January 17, 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation noted its continuing objection to any further declassification of the materials in the binder and also, on the basis of a review that included Intelligence Community equities, identified the passages that it believed it was most crucial to keep from public disclosure. I have determined to accept the redactions proposed for continued classification by the FBI in that January 17 submission. I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder. This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI's January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.

source

Since that order was given on January 19, 2021, it's pretty obvious that there was not a redacted version of the documents available to be packed up on January 20th. (If there was, the documents would not have been marked classified.) So what Trump took with him, because the redactions had not been made yet, was still classified.

[Mountain Man]

Actually, the president's ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit is a bit of a problem for Trump. Because of the manner he saw fit, that is.

I determined that the materials in that binder should be declassified to the maximum extent possible. In response, and as part of the iterative process of the declassification review, under a cover letter dated January 17, 2021, the Federal Bureau of Investigation noted its continuing objection to any further declassification of the materials in the binder and also, on the basis of a review that included Intelligence Community equities, identified the passages that it believed it was most crucial to keep from public disclosure. I have determined to accept the redactions proposed for continued classification by the FBI in that January 17 submission. I hereby declassify the remaining materials in the binder. This is my final determination under the declassification review and I have directed the Attorney General to implement the redactions proposed in the FBI's January 17 submission and return to the White House an appropriately redacted copy.

source

Since that order was given on January 19, 2021, it's pretty obvious that there was not a redacted version of the documents available to be packed up on January 20th. (If there was, the documents would not have been marked classified.) So what Trump took with him, because the redactions had not been made yet, was still classified.

That doesn't really matter since it is the president's prerogative to change his mind.

[Stoic]

That doesn't really matter since it is the president's prerogative to change his mind.

[Mountain Man]

Go on, show me the law that says that the president does not have full discretion to declassify information in any way he sees fit. I know people keep saying, "There has to be a paper trail!" but does there? What law says so?

[firstfloor]

Again, the Supreme Court will have the final say, and the central point will be whether or not the president has the ability to declassify documents in any manner he sees fit.

The issue currently is not about classification. Trump’s problem is that he was illegally holding government documents, and just to make matters worse, he lied about it.

The lawyers cannot make formal claims about declassification without perjuring themselves - so they’re not going to SCOTUS with this.

It makes no difference what Trump could have done while POTUS. The document itself declares its classification. If on his last day he declared a document declassified, but it wasn’t processed in the proper way, it would fall to the next POTUS to review the matter initiated by his predecessor.

DoJ are able to continue with the slightly delayed investigation concerning the classified materials.

“Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified. And before the special master, Plaintiff resisted providing any evidence that he had declassified any of these documents,” the panel wrote. “In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal.”

[Starlight]

We'll see have to wait for the Supreme Court to make their decision, but I suspect they will determine that a president has broad discretionary authority when it comes to classification.

Do you support Trump's claim in this week's interview, that he can have declassified documents just by deciding to in his head, and telling no one?

In case you're not aware, declassified documents can be subjected to FOIA requests from the public. While classified documents are excluded from these and need to be kept secure by government officials. Do you think those government officials can do their jobs properly if all government documents exist in a perpetual state of possibly classified because no government official can know what's in the President's head at any given time and hence has no way of knowing the current classification state of the documents they are dealing with?

Also, what happens if Obama does and interview now, and says "by the way, I declassified all government documents in my head while I was president, forgot to tell anyone at the time, but I'm telling you guys now that it happened"?

[Mountain Man]

Do you support Trump's claim in this week's interview, that he can have declassified documents just by deciding to in his head, and telling no one?

In case you're not aware, declassified documents can be subjected to FOIA requests from the public. While classified documents are excluded from these and need to be kept secure by government officials. Do you think those government officials can do their jobs properly if all government documents exist in a perpetual state of possibly classified because no government official can know what's in the President's head at any given time and hence has no way of knowing the current classification state of the documents they are dealing with?

Also, what happens if Obama does and interview now, and says "by the way, I declassified all government documents in my head while I was president, forgot to tell anyone at the time, but I'm telling you guys now that it happened"?

I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately decide if there are Constitutional limits to the president's authority to declassify.

[firstfloor]

I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately decide if there are Constitutional limits to the president's authority to declassify.

There is no question for them to settle. Trumpco have not told any court that they declassified the documents found at Mar-a-Lago.