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From the horse's mouth

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  • From the horse's mouth

    An interesting article that I discovered concerning the testimony of the former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers. This and the news that the House January 6 committee is planning to put forward a case that the attack on the US Capitol was premeditated rather than spontaneous seem to have arrived at almost the same time and would appear to indicate that a criminal prosecution against Trump may be inevitable.

    Van Tatenhove's comments on Rhodes and that he "had these grand visions of being a paramilitary leader" as well as his comment that he does "fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring" sound particularly chilling.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...person-witness

    In powerful testimony to the House January 6 committee, a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers militia told Americans to “quit mincing words and just talk about truths”, and to recognise that Donald Trump attempted to mount “an armed revolution” in order to stay in power.

    “People died that day,” Jason van Tatenhove said. “Law enforcement officers died, there was a gallows set up in front of the Capitol. This could have been the spark that started a new civil war, and no one would have won there. That would have been good for no one.”

    Van Tatenhove appeared at a Tuesday hearing in Washington alongside Stephen Ayres, a former Trump supporter from Ohio who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanour charge related to entering the Capitol on 6 January 2021.

    Both men discussed former allegiances and lessons learned after Congress was stormed by a mob that Trump told to “fight like hell” in service of his lie that his defeat by Joe Biden was the result of electoral fraud.

    Ayres said his realisation Trump lied was akin to having “horse blinders” removed. He also spoke about what his conviction had cost him.

    Van Tatenhove described efforts by Stewart Rhodes – the Oath Keepers leader now charged with seditious conspiracy – to hone his public image.

    Rhodes “was always looking for ways to legitimise what he was doing,” Van Tatenhove said, “wrapping it in the trappings of, ‘It’s not a militia, it’s a community preparedness team … an educational outreach group, it’s a veteran support group.’

    “But again, we’ve got to stop with this dishonesty and the mincing of words and just call things for what they are. You know it, he’s a militia leader. He had these grand visions of being a paramilitary leader.”

    Members of the Oath Keepers provided security to Trump allies around January 6 and entered the Capitol.

    A bipartisan Senate committee linked seven deaths to the riot, which failed to stop certification of Biden’s win. That toll included police officers who killed themselves after the riot, a total that has since grown by two.

    Van Tatenhove said: “The fact the president was communicating whether directly or indirectly … kind of gave [Rhodes] the nod, and all I can do to thank the gods that things did not go any worse.”

    Asked what the Oath Keepers saw in Trump, Van Tatenhove said: “They saw a path forward that would have legitimacy. They saw an opportunity … to become a powerful paramilitary force.”

    Asked if Rhodes discussed violence against elected leaders, Van Tatenhove gave a chilling answer.

    “That went back from the very beginning of my tenure,” he said, of an association which began around a standoff with federal forces in 2014. “One of the first assignments that he brought to me … as a graphic artist … was to create a deck of cards.

    “You may remember the conflict in the Middle East where our own military created a deck of cards, a who’s who of key players on the other side they wanted to take out.

    “And Stuart was very intrigued by that notion and influenced by it, I think, and he wanted me to create a deck of cards that would include different politicians, judges, up to Hillary Clinton as the Queen of Hearts.

    “This is a project that I refused to do. But from the very start, we saw that there was always the push for military training, including courses in that community that went over explosives training. So yeah, it all falls in line.”

    Van Tatenhove said his experience showed the US had “gotten exceedingly lucky that more bloodshed did not happen because the potential has been there from the start.

    “A loss of life as tragic as that we saw on January 6, the potential was so much more. We have to look at the iconic images of that day, with the gallows set up for Mike Pence, for the vice-president of the United States.”

    Trump remains free to run for office, retaining support from half of Republican voters, according to a New York Times poll.

    Van Tatenhove said: “I do fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring.”

    Calling Trump “a president willing to try to whip up civil war amongst his followers using lies and deceit and snake oil, regardless of the human impact”, Van Tatenhove asked: “What else is he going to do if he gets elected again? All bets are off at that point and that’s a scary notion.

    “I have three daughters. I have a granddaughter. And I fear for the world that they will inherit if we do not start holding these people to account.”



    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Same old anti-Trump lies, propaganda, and third hand testimony we've been hearing for the past six years going all the way back to the Russian Collusion Delusion.

    But why would the Democrats stop now when there are so many low information morons ready to believe everything they hear?
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Same old anti-Trump lies, propaganda, and third hand testimony we've been hearing for the past six years going all the way back to the Russian Collusion Delusion.

      But why would the Democrats stop now when there are so many low information morons ready to believe everything they hear?
      Van Tatenhove is a Democrat?
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        An interesting article that I discovered concerning the testimony of the former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers. This and the news that the House January 6 committee is planning to put forward a case that the attack on the US Capitol was premeditated rather than spontaneous seem to have arrived at almost the same time and would appear to indicate that a criminal prosecution against Trump may be inevitable.

        Van Tatenhove's comments on Rhodes and that he "had these grand visions of being a paramilitary leader" as well as his comment that he does "fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring" sound particularly chilling.


        https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...person-witness

        In powerful testimony to the House January 6 committee, a former spokesperson for the Oath Keepers militia told Americans to “quit mincing words and just talk about truths”, and to recognise that Donald Trump attempted to mount “an armed revolution” in order to stay in power.

        “People died that day,” Jason van Tatenhove said. “Law enforcement officers died, there was a gallows set up in front of the Capitol. This could have been the spark that started a new civil war, and no one would have won there. That would have been good for no one.”

        Van Tatenhove appeared at a Tuesday hearing in Washington alongside Stephen Ayres, a former Trump supporter from Ohio who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanour charge related to entering the Capitol on 6 January 2021.

        Both men discussed former allegiances and lessons learned after Congress was stormed by a mob that Trump told to “fight like hell” in service of his lie that his defeat by Joe Biden was the result of electoral fraud.

        Ayres said his realisation Trump lied was akin to having “horse blinders” removed. He also spoke about what his conviction had cost him.

        Van Tatenhove described efforts by Stewart Rhodes – the Oath Keepers leader now charged with seditious conspiracy – to hone his public image.

        Rhodes “was always looking for ways to legitimise what he was doing,” Van Tatenhove said, “wrapping it in the trappings of, ‘It’s not a militia, it’s a community preparedness team … an educational outreach group, it’s a veteran support group.’

        “But again, we’ve got to stop with this dishonesty and the mincing of words and just call things for what they are. You know it, he’s a militia leader. He had these grand visions of being a paramilitary leader.”

        Members of the Oath Keepers provided security to Trump allies around January 6 and entered the Capitol.

        A bipartisan Senate committee linked seven deaths to the riot, which failed to stop certification of Biden’s win. That toll included police officers who killed themselves after the riot, a total that has since grown by two.

        Van Tatenhove said: “The fact the president was communicating whether directly or indirectly … kind of gave [Rhodes] the nod, and all I can do to thank the gods that things did not go any worse.”

        Asked what the Oath Keepers saw in Trump, Van Tatenhove said: “They saw a path forward that would have legitimacy. They saw an opportunity … to become a powerful paramilitary force.”

        Asked if Rhodes discussed violence against elected leaders, Van Tatenhove gave a chilling answer.

        “That went back from the very beginning of my tenure,” he said, of an association which began around a standoff with federal forces in 2014. “One of the first assignments that he brought to me … as a graphic artist … was to create a deck of cards.

        “You may remember the conflict in the Middle East where our own military created a deck of cards, a who’s who of key players on the other side they wanted to take out.

        “And Stuart was very intrigued by that notion and influenced by it, I think, and he wanted me to create a deck of cards that would include different politicians, judges, up to Hillary Clinton as the Queen of Hearts.

        “This is a project that I refused to do. But from the very start, we saw that there was always the push for military training, including courses in that community that went over explosives training. So yeah, it all falls in line.”

        Van Tatenhove said his experience showed the US had “gotten exceedingly lucky that more bloodshed did not happen because the potential has been there from the start.

        “A loss of life as tragic as that we saw on January 6, the potential was so much more. We have to look at the iconic images of that day, with the gallows set up for Mike Pence, for the vice-president of the United States.”

        Trump remains free to run for office, retaining support from half of Republican voters, according to a New York Times poll.

        Van Tatenhove said: “I do fear for this next election cycle because who knows what that might bring.”

        Calling Trump “a president willing to try to whip up civil war amongst his followers using lies and deceit and snake oil, regardless of the human impact”, Van Tatenhove asked: “What else is he going to do if he gets elected again? All bets are off at that point and that’s a scary notion.

        “I have three daughters. I have a granddaughter. And I fear for the world that they will inherit if we do not start holding these people to account.”


        Where the hell are they getting 7 deaths? There was one killing (an unarmed woman killed by a cop). One guy with a history of high blood pressure had a heart attack. Another died to heart failure due to high blood pressure in the vicinity of the Capitol area. Some woman died of an accidental overdose of an addictive drug that she was on prescription for.

        That's four. Not 7. Surely they're not trying to push the whole Sicknick thing. Even then that would only be 5. How the hell are they getting 7 deaths? What a load of dishonest crap.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          Where the hell are they getting 7 deaths? There was one killing (an unarmed woman killed by a cop). One guy with a history of high blood pressure had a heart attack. Another died to heart failure due to high blood pressure in the vicinity of the Capitol area. Some woman died of an accidental overdose of an addictive drug that she was on prescription for.

          That's four. Not 7. Surely they're not trying to push the whole Sicknick thing. Even then that would only be 5. How the hell are they getting 7 deaths? What a load of dishonest crap.
          According to the article, they are including people who committed suicide some time after the riot. It's bull.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Where the hell are they getting 7 deaths? There was one killing (an unarmed woman killed by a cop). One guy with a history of high blood pressure had a heart attack. Another died to heart failure due to high blood pressure in the vicinity of the Capitol area. Some woman died of an accidental overdose of an addictive drug that she was on prescription for.

            That's four. Not 7. Surely they're not trying to push the whole Sicknick thing. Even then that would only be 5. How the hell are they getting 7 deaths? What a load of dishonest crap.
            It appears that more police officers who were involved in that event have since committed suicide.

            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

              According to the article, they are including people who committed suicide some time after the riot. It's bull.
              They are dead so it is not "bull".
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                According to the article, they are including people who committed suicide some time after the riot. It's bull.
                Wow........ just wow.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  It appears that more police officers who were involved in that event have since committed suicide.
                  Wow. That's insane to try to add that to pad numbers. What a bunch of dishonest jackasses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    It appears that more police officers who were involved in that event have since committed suicide.
                    Also Matthew Perna, one of the victims of the persecution.
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Federalist.

                    Nationalist Christian.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                    Justice for Matthew Perna!

                    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not sure the "mouth" is the actual orifice of the horse giving the interview.

                      The guy being interviewed is a cowardly pile of skunk crap who's just trying to make things better for himself. He and his cronies were a bunch of militaristic nuts who chose to misunderstand and misrepresent Trump.

                      Likewise, the author of the Guardian article is a typical dishonest "journalist," taking things from Trump's Jan 6 speech out of context and misrepresenting them.

                      Here, FTR, can be found the transcript. Look, for instance, at the sense in which "fight," including the "fight like hell" quote, is used throughout. There was no incitement to violence. Only dogs heard the nonexistent dog-whistle.

                      I've noted before that I have friends -- a small-church pastor and his wife -- who attended the rally and heard the speech, but because of the long drive, left and headed home before the peaceful and patriotic march to the Capitol. They were shocked to hear about the events that occurred after they left, because nothing at the rally or in the speech hinted at such, and they're not the sort who seek out secret messages from "Q" to alert them to such things.
                      Last edited by NorrinRadd; 07-14-2022, 03:08 AM.
                      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                      Beige Federalist.

                      Nationalist Christian.

                      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                      Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                      Justice for Matthew Perna!

                      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        It appears that more police officers who were involved in that event have since committed suicide.
                        And therefore the link is obvious.

                        laugh-harder-oh.gif

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          I'm not sure the "mouth" is the actual orifice of the horse giving the interview.

                          The guy being interviewed is a cowardly pile of skunk crap who's just trying to make things better for himself. He and his cronies were a bunch of militaristic nuts who chose to misunderstand and misrepresent Trump.

                          Likewise, the author of the Guardian article is a typical dishonest "journalist," taking things from Trump's Jan 6 speech out of context and misrepresenting them.

                          Here, FTR, can be found the transcript. Look, for instance, at the sense in which "fight," including the "fight like hell" quote, is used throughout. There was no incitement to violence. Only dogs heard the nonexistent dog-whistle.

                          I've noted before that I have friends -- a small-church pastor and his wife -- who attended the rally and heard the speech, but because of the long drive, left and headed home before the peaceful and patriotic march to the Capitol. They were shocked to hear about the events that occurred after they left, because nothing at the rally or in the speech hinted at such, and they're not the sort who seek out secret messages from "Q" to alert them to such things.
                          A show trial wouldn't be a show trial until a couple of contrite culprits get dragged before the court and confess to their crimes.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                            Also Matthew Perna, one of the victims of the persecution.
                            Was he victimised in jail?
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              A show trial wouldn't be a show trial until a couple of contrite culprits get dragged before the court and confess to their crimes.
                              One wonders why Trump attempted to contact a witness who has yet to make an appearance at that hearing.

                              Here: https://www.npr.org/2022/07/12/11111...-trump-witness

                              Former President Donald Trump attempted to call a witness in the Jan. 6 investigation following the last hearing on June 28 with former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson, House Jan. 6 committee Vice Chair Liz Cheney said in her closing statement Tuesday.

                              Cheney said the witness has yet to appear in the hearings and didn't take the call but alerted their lawyer, who told the Democratic-led committee. Cheney said the committee passed along the information to the Justice Department.

                              "We will take any effort to influence witness testimony very seriously," she said.



                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment

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