Is it "transphobia"?

[Psychic Missile]

1) I acknowledged in a reply to Star that I understand the main point of the verse was marriage. Perhaps I should have noted that in my OP. To me, it was so self-evident that the teaching on marriage and divorce was rooted in and built on the "male and female" presuppositions that they seemed indispensable. If the *only* point was marriage and divorce, He could have gone to Mal. 2:16, and probably avoided the "confusion."

2) IMO, the fact that He brought in the original creation argues against the "claims" of trans people.

3) My conscience is clean in regard to what I'm "trying" to do w.r.t. "context."

4) This thread belongs in some thread where infidels can participate. It involves freedom of speech, freedom of thought, freedom of written expression, freedom of religious exercise.

1) If God wanted to make a statement about an important issue, he wouldn't hide it in an ambiguous manner in the middle of an unrelated passage. Conveyance of morality is paramount and it's best to be explicit.
2) How so?
3) I expect as much. Christianity, like any moralist religion, is a self-deification. God just so happens to approve of your personal morality and opinions and God is against the morality and opinions of Christians who differ from you. Abolitionist and pro-slavery Christians both claimed to be on God's side.
4) Except that trans rights are both a scientific and legal issue. Whether or not you believe Christianity is anti-trans has no bearing on anyone except yourself. If there is any reason to oppose trans rights or transitioning, there should be no need to defer to religion. Anyone, including yourself, deferring to any textual interpretation for a solution is anti-freedom of speech, anti-freedom of thought, and anti-freedom of religious exercise.

[Starlight]

Furthermore, I have theorized that the real reason Putin wanted to take Ukraine is because he didn't want a neighboring country going woke like America is going. He just sees that as a threat to the stability of Russia. Partly the reason maybe. I don't know, it was just a fleeting thought I had one time.

Is your real name Jordan Peterson? He was making headlines this week because people were laughing at him for suggesting that.

[NorrinRadd]

It would be fairly difficult for any author than the 50 years ago to consider a circumstance that could only be brought about since that time - the drugs and surgeries just didn't exist. But when all things are considered, transsexual is really only an extreme expression of transvestite.

Hmm. I dunno. Ever since watching Eddie Izzard perform on HBO years ago, I've regarded them as separate perversions.

[Machinist]

Is your real name Jordan Peterson? He was making headlines this week because people were laughing at him for suggesting that.

Hey that's neat. I like Jordan Peterson. Yeah. it's easy to come to that conclusion. All this LGBT stuff is not tolerated over there, plus all the myriad definitions of hundreds of genders and the confusion that all of it causes reduces efficiency in any society. Once a society declines in efficiency, it becomes weak, and I mean to the point where a foreign enemy nation can land on our shores and take the country with relative ease. I make light of it sometimes and joke, but I firmly believe that this woke ideology is a threat to the United States of America. All sin aside. I am not invoking any religious view here. I am only referring to the strength of a nation based on how efficient it is. Confusion reduces efficiency. You can make it religious I suppose, e.g. satan is the author of confusion. I'm not really looking at it through a lens of religion though.

I really appreciate the information you have posted. It's truly fascinating and interesting about these cultures where the feminine is embodied into a life and represented as a symbol through pure devotion. It's actually a beautiful thing to me. I've read enough of Jung to somewhat appreciate symbolism and mythology, and the psychic world of symbols. As I have said, I don't think these cultures are unstable, except from maybe pressures from the outside of the culture. As in westerners trying to convert them. Troubles will arise though, when one radically different worldview starts to integrate. There's a book entitled Cultural Software that touches on this. I've only read parts of it, but I like the metaphor that it invokes. There is a software gliche in our nation and it's causing much confusion and angst among younger generations. The idea is not integrating properly and it's causing a lot of problems. I don't know how far it will go and I don't know the extent of the erosion, but it's possible that the United States could fall and be taken by a more efficient nation if this is not solved.

Part of me believes it's all going to fizzle out though. The ideology will implode. We're already seeing signs of it. These ideas are not efficient against this nation's Christian mythos. I think the mythos is far more powerful than this ideology is. It won't integrate, as in there is no cultural interface for it. It's all pretty much being tolerated right now. It just doesn't work. We're not a society built upon these localized indigenous mythologies that have the innocence to freely explore various primordial aspects of the psyche. I think there is some substance to the idea of the psyche being both male and female, or men having a female side to them, and women having a male side. The Bible even makes mention that in God, there is no male nor female. That may or may not refer to the basic circuitry of the psyche, but I think it's a valid thing that male/female could be an intrinsic part of human psychology. What we're witnessing here in our nation with this wokeness, is more of a memplex than it is entire generations that are seeking some sort of meaningful symbolic expression. I see this memeplex dying out, and hopefully it won't die out because it's exterminated. I wouldn't want to see anything like that. But like I said, it's only being tolerated right now.

Putin's like "ah hell no, that dysfunction is not coming into our homeland. I'll go as far as using nukes against it if I have to. " He sees it, and I'm sure he's watching what he hopes is a slow decay of America. Or maybe he don't really hope it, he just sees it. They're all Russian Orthodox over there, Christian, just a slightly different take on things. Probably less diverse too. All this celebrate diversity stuff has dangerously opened many pathways for non-compatible worldviews to come in. All this is more of a memetic viewpoint than it is religious. I don't see the mental confusion in these other cultures that you cite, where part of their religion, part of their foundations of reality and experience involves various aspects of the psyche incarnated into living myth. It all makes sense to them, within their framework, within their map of reality. All that stuff is dangerous here in this westernized context. An individual here in the west, when they decide to start identifying with the opposite gender, or with some other gender, they are tampering with some very primordial and sensitive circuitry. They are tinkering with very basic structures of reality, like some unprepared novice shaman delving deep into a sea of ambiguous psychic representations. One can get lost very easy in that labyrinth. It's possible that we will have a couple of lost generations in the near future that are also in charge of defending our country. That wouldn't end well for America. God bless America!

And that's my rant for the morning. Hope it all makes some sense.

[Starlight]

all the myriad definitions of hundreds of genders

As far as I have noticed we seem to still have 2 genders. Trans people by and large seem to just want to swap to the other gender, not create more. Very occasionally I hear of someone being 'non-binary', but our society doesn't seem to have made any accommodations for them and that doesn't yet seem to be a widely recognized gender, so we seem to still have the two.

I'm afraid I struggle to take talk of 'hundreds of genders' seriously since we appear to still have 2. I am certainly open the concept of us moving to 3-5 genders since most societies in history seem to have had numbers in that range. But that's not 'hundreds' by any measure.

and the confusion that all of it causes reduces efficiency in any society.

Generally I support efficiency. More efficient transport. More efficient government services. More efficient tax. etc. All great.

But the way you seem to talk about efficiency in your post makes me unsure exactly what you mean by it, and seems to have overtones of fascist dictatorships or communist controlled economies where 'efficiency' means everyone doing exactly as they commanded to do in robotic unity. Is your 'efficiency' the opposite of freedom?

I make light of it sometimes and joke, but I firmly believe that this woke ideology is a threat to the United States of America.

Uh huh... That sounds pretty crazy.

I would say US conservativism is a threat to the USA. And unlike you I can actually give a clear reason why I think that: (1) They physically attacked the capitol.

And some secondary reasons:
(2) They regularly talk about the need to own guns so they can overthrow the government if necessary;
(3) I have seen many conservatives and least one on these forum (seer) talk often about the need for a civil war in the US;
(4) US departments and groups monitoring potential terrorism consistently label right-wing groups the biggest outstanding domestic terrorist threats;
(5) There is a sophisticated and well-funded right-wing propaganda network ranging from Fox News to Newsmax to Breitbart to Ben Shapiro and others to continuously disseminate falsehoods and propaganda in order to mislead right-wingers make them angry and fearful and the extent they are disconnected from reality is reaching a critical point (e.g. as indicated by the attack on the capitol fueled by their entirely false belief that the election was rigged against Trump, when, as we have seen in the Jan 6 hearings, behind the scenes all of Trump's conservative Republican advisors agreed there was no evidence at all of electoral fraud) - Tucker Carlson relentlessly spewing continuous falsehoods on the most watched politics show on television is causing incredible dissention in the nation and a significant part of the country to hold beliefs that are entirely untethered from reality.

I'm sure I could probably think of some other reasons, but that's enough to be getting on with.

These ideas are not efficient against this nation's Christian mythos. I think the mythos is far more powerful than this ideology is. It won't integrate, as in there is no cultural interface for it.

I'd say the lesson from the rest of the West is that Christianity will gradually diminish in power and adherents in the US. The younger generations hold to a liberal ethos but not to Christianity.

Putin's like "ah hell no, that dysfunction is not coming into our homeland. I'll go as far as using nukes against it if I have to. "

You're just plain making up words and imagining them in Putin's mouth. I am unaware of Putin ever having said remotely close to any such thing or have suggested any such thing as a reason for invading Ukraine.

Putin's stated reason for invading Ukraine was to remove the Nazis there. The Ukrainian Azov Regiment is pretty openly Nazi. If you want to translate that into the US culture war, that makes Putin antifa. So, the opposite of your idea.

They're all Russian Orthodox over there, Christian, just a slightly different take on things. Probably less diverse too.

The church was suppressed during communism. Russian Orthodoxy accounts for less than half the population's views.

Putin has found it convenient for political reasons to cozy up to the Russian Orthodox Church, just as Trump found it convenient to cozy up to the Evangelicals in America. I would be deeply skeptical that either Trump or Putin are actually religious themselves beyond political convenience.

US Evangelicals have themselves been doing a lot of work in eastern Europe and Russia to export their views over there, especially their culture wars. So it is now common to find US terms such as 'family values' or 'cancel culture' being used in those regions, despite the lack of history of those ideas in the religions there. The US Evangelicals have found the dictator in Hungary particularly accommodating, and Tucker Carlson spent a couple of weeks there and the US conservatives held their annual conference CPAC there. Cynical people would say they hoped to learn how to turn the US into a right-wing dictatorship like Hungary.

[seer]

And some secondary reasons:
(2) They regularly talk about the need to own guns so they can overthrow the government if necessary;
(3) I have seen many conservatives and least one on these forum (seer) talk often about the need for a civil war in the US...

Sounds like the Founding Fathers! And I never said we need a civil war, only that the radical left will push us to it. Remember 95% of the violence and destruction of cities over the past couple of yeas was instigated by the left.

[Machinist]

I'm afraid I struggle to take talk of 'hundreds of genders' seriously since we appear to still have 2. I am certainly open the concept of us moving to 3-5 genders since most societies in history seem to have had numbers in that range. But that's not 'hundreds' by any measure.

Hey, thanks for the detailed reply. If you haven't noticed, i'm the type that likes throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

One point that i'd like to make before I rush off to work: These cultures that have 3-5 genders that you speak of, again, they are doing it for cultural reasons that are deeply engrained into their mythos and view of the world. They have a role that is larger than themselves and they submit to that role within their mythologies. The trans ideology here in America is detached from any real symbolic and cultural meaning. Do you know what I am talking about when I say that it behaves more like a meme than it does some meaningful collective desire to symbolically express the opposite sex through a religious or cultural context? That may or may not make sense to you. It does to me. Please let me know if that makes any sense to you at all, because I do think there is something of substance here to discuss. There is a huge difference between these indigenous cultures and the way they express these facets of the psyche through their rituals and customs, and what's going on over here in America.

[alaskazimm]

I would say US conservativism is a threat to the USA. And unlike you I can actually give a clear reason why I think that: (1) They physically attacked the capitol.

Do you also say that the left is a greater threat to the US given they have attacked the capitol on more occasions than conservatives?

[rogue06]

Do you also say that the left is a greater threat to the US given they have attacked the capitol on more occasions than conservatives?

Twice in 2018 alone.