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Abortion-slavery analogies

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  • Abortion-slavery analogies

    This just popped into my head, so I'm only starting to ponder it...

    It occurs to me that the abortion issue has the potential to be even more dramatically divisive than "slavery," because *each* side kind of views it as slavery.

    The Left sees restrictions on abortion as "enslaving" women.

    The Right sees abortion itself as treating the unborn as less than human and therefore dispensable, a major aspect of slavery.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

  • #2
    Slavery isn't the same as wanton murder.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Slavery isn't the same as wanton murder.
      Not forgetting that many slaves were murdered. And that murderous policy towards blacks continued in the South for decades, long after slavery had officially been abolished, to wit, all that Strange Fruit.
      "It ain't necessarily so
      The things that you're liable
      To read in the Bible
      It ain't necessarily so
      ."

      Sportin' Life
      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Slavery isn't the same as wanton murder.
        No.

        But in this case, both sides are making the argument that the other side is devaluing someone -- either the mother or the baby -- to less than fully human status. That has the potential to make the conflict more intense and intractable than a case where one side is arguing about "property," IMO.
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Federalist.

        Nationalist Christian.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Proud member of the this space left blank community.

        Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

        Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

        Justice for Matthew Perna!

        Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

          Not forgetting that many slaves were murdered. And that murderous policy towards blacks continued in the South for decades, long after slavery had officially been abolished, to wit, all that Strange Fruit.
          Not forgetting that slaves were also freed and even became part of the family in some cases. Not so for the slave laborers in Nazi concentration camps who were forced to work until it was time to execute them.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Not forgetting that slaves were also freed and even became part of the family in some cases.
            Or were raped by their owners.

            Nor was manumission precisely an American idea.

            What historical examples do you have of slaves becoming "part of the family" and in what specific contexts?

            Or are you attempting to defend the benefits of slavery in the USA?
            "It ain't necessarily so
            The things that you're liable
            To read in the Bible
            It ain't necessarily so
            ."

            Sportin' Life
            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              Or were raped by their owners.

              Nor was manumission precisely an American idea.

              What historical examples do you have of slaves becoming "part of the family" and in what specific contexts?

              Or are you attempting to defend the benefits of slavery in the USA?
              Says someone who defends the benefits of murdering someone's own offspring.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Or were raped by their owners.

                Nor was manumission precisely an American idea.

                What historical examples do you have of slaves becoming "part of the family" and in what specific contexts?

                Or are you attempting to defend the benefits of slavery in the USA?
                You do realize that some blacks owned slaves, right? Occasionally some of those slaves were even family members.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  You do realize that some blacks owned slaves, right? Occasionally some of those slaves were even family members.
                  I didn't ask about that. You wrote:

                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  Not forgetting that slaves were also freed and even became part of the family in some cases.


                  I requested some historical [and I should add attested] evidence and in what contexts.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    I didn't ask about that. You wrote:



                    I requested some historical [and I should add attested] evidence and in what contexts.
                    They bought family members as slaves. How much more of slaves being part of the family can you ask for?

                    There are also instances of a slave being adopted by their owners. Rare, but not unheard of.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      They bought family members as slaves. How much more of slaves being part of the family can you ask for?
                      You did not write about buying "family members as slaves". You wrote: My emphasis

                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Not forgetting that slaves were also freed and even became part of the family in some cases.


                      If a slave is already a member of a family that slave cannot then become a member of that family after manumission. Regardless of their social status [enslaved or free] they remain part of that family.

                      You have repeated your contention again here

                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      There are also instances of a slave being adopted by their owners. Rare, but not unheard of.
                      So once more, what attested historical evidence [however rare] do you have to support your comment?


                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        You did not write about buying "family members as slaves". You wrote: My emphasis



                        If a slave is already a member of a family that slave cannot then become a member of that family after manumission. Regardless of their social status [enslaved or free] they remain part of that family.

                        You have repeated your contention again here



                        So once more, what attested historical evidence [however rare] do you have to support your comment?

                        You have access to online resources don't you? And seem to have an extensive hard copy library on every topic imaginable, as you regularly let us know.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          You did not write about buying "family members as slaves". You wrote: My emphasis



                          If a slave is already a member of a family that slave cannot then become a member of that family after manumission. Regardless of their social status [enslaved or free] they remain part of that family.

                          You have repeated your contention again here



                          So once more, what attested historical evidence [however rare] do you have to support your comment?

                          The case that immediately comes to mind from my High School days was where a family adopted their daughter's best friend -- a slave -- to stay with her. The daughter was apparently one requiring special attention and they wanted the friend to always stay with her. To reduce the risk of her running off, and in hopes of causing her to be more attentive than someone made to do something, they adopted her so they could be "sisters."

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            The case that immediately comes to mind from my High School days was where a family adopted their daughter's best friend -- a slave -- to stay with her. The daughter was apparently one requiring special attention and they wanted the friend to always stay with her. To reduce the risk of her running off, and in hopes of causing her to be more attentive than someone made to do something, they adopted her so they could be "sisters."
                            Given the issues you seem to have with you memory, and despite your childhood recollections, I would like some attested historical evidence from the antebellum period that you have alleged exists [regardless of the rarity of such incidents].
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              Given the issues you seem to have with you memory. and despite your childhood recollections, I would like some attested historical evidence from the antebellum period that you allege exists [regardless of the rarity of such incidents].
                              Mr. Collier brought stuff like this up all the time. The only thing I don't recall is what state this took place in. I suspect Alabama, because that's where he was from and where most of what he would bring up took place.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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