Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Are Some Germans Taking Their Cue From Iran?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

    My dear, that was the entire point. It has nothing to do with brutal executions or terrorism just as the OP incident in your similarly titled thread had nothing to do with Chinese government/military in Tiananmen Square despite your attempts to suggest otherwise. The entire point of this thread is to show how absurd and illogical your similarly titled thread was.

    Its nice to see you werr able to grasp the irrelevancy here, but somehow you werent when it came to your own OP.

    Talk about the point flying into the stratosphere over your head.
    Oh you were attempting to being ironic? How very droll.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      Oh you were attempting to being ironic? How very droll.
      There's that analogy impairment flaring up again.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        Oh you were attempting to being ironic? How very droll.
        No, I employed an analogy to demonstrate how stupid your thread was. Apparently you were able to recognize it, but not apply it to yourself.
        Last edited by Gondwanaland; 07-06-2022, 12:39 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by CivilDiscourse View Post

          There's that analogy impairment flaring up again.
          It appears that I am not alone:

          Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

          CD, misreading the post and assuming that H_A was instead disagreeing with the claim that Republicans have had a pro-abortion wing, made a faltering attempt to analogize his incomprehension into a claim that a lack of of progressive legislation would signal an absence of progressives in the Democratic Party. Reading comprehension has never been his forte
          ,
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            The British camps were concentration camps established for both Boers and black Africans and thousands died of disease and hunger. I will not post any pictures of children dying from disease or emaciated by hunger but you can find them online.
            The first official ghetto was in Rome, in the Travestere section of the city where a wall with a gate was built to encompass it. The Jews were locked inside at night and were required to pay for the construction of the wall. The specific part of the city that was picked was in one of the least desirable areas, prone to constant flooding from the nearby Tiber. While many Jews already lived there prior to it being made a ghetto, they at least could leave when the river flooded. And we're talking about a river going through a Medieval city

            They had no source of fresh water. The fountain that was supposed to have been built (the way most people got water in cities) in the ghetto got rerouted to in front of a powerful local noble home instead. The walls forced overcrowding and diseases hit the population especially hard.
            Last edited by rogue06; 07-06-2022, 12:59 PM.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

              It appears that I am not alone:

              ,
              I can't help if if your prose was so bad that you caused confusion. Based on the standards you push on others, you should have made your statement more clear. The difference is though, that Juvenal DID understand the analogy, where you did not.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                that close?
                https://imgur.com/F636xiP


                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  The first official ghetto was in Rome, in the Travestere section of the city where a wall with a gate was built to encompass it. The Jews were locked inside at night and were required to pay for the construction of the wall. The specific part of the city that was picked was in one of the least desirable areas, prone to constant flooding from the nearby Tiber. While many Jews already lived there prior to it being made a ghetto, they at least could leave when the river flooded. And we're talking about a river going through a Medieval city

                  They had no source of fresh water. The fountain that was supposed to have been built (the way most people got water in cities) in the ghetto got rerouted to in front of a powerful local noble home instead. The walls forced overcrowding and diseases hit the population especially hard.
                  I think you may discover that both Frankfurt and Venice had Jewish ghettoes pre-dating that established in Rome.

                  And of course all these were established by Christians.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    I think you may discover that both Frankfurt and Venice had Jewish ghettoes pre-dating that established in Rome.

                    And of course all these were established by Christians.
                    I think you overlooked the word "official" in the description.

                    The point being, what took place during the Boer War or the Reservation system in the U.S., matches up to this rather than concentration camps.

                    The mass homicide centers that were designed to slaughter people wholesale that were the concentration camps are a unique German construct. And while countries have had places to send folks to work until they eventually die (the old salt mines come to mind), they appear to be the first places ever designed for masses of people to be sent not to work until they die but to work while they awaited mass execution.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      I think you overlooked the word "official" in the description.
                      I think you overlooked attested historical facts. From your favourite reference source.

                      The Venetian Ghetto was the area of Venice in which Jews were forced to live by the government of the Venetian Republic. The English word ghetto is derived from the Jewish ghetto in Venice. The Venetian Ghetto was instituted on 29 March 1516 by decree of Doge Leonardo Loredan and the Venetian Senate.


                      And here:

                      Ghettoization began in Venice on March 29, 1516, when the Senate ordered all Jews residing in the city to move behind the walls of the Ghetto Nuovo. The decree stipulated that the Jews would be locked into the ghetto at night behind gates and would undergo continual
                      surveillance. Jews could not own ghetto property; therefore, they rented their high-rent apartments in perpetuity. [See: Dana E Katz, The Jewish Ghetto and Visual Imagination of Early Modern Venice, 2017, CUP p.2. Introduction.



                      And here:

                      [...]In 1516 a compromise was reached: all those Jews currently in the city and all those who were to come in the future were to reside segregated behind walls in the area known as the ghetto nuovo, thereby given a new meaning to the word ghetto previously used to refer to an iron foundry on that site. Soon a series of charters [condotte] evolved, authorising those Jews to live in the city for five-year periods and engage in money-lending and the sale of second-hand goods [strazzaria] under carefully stipulated terms. Benjamin Ravid, “The First Charter of the Jewish Merchants of Venice, 1589,” AJS Review, vol. 1 (1976): 187-222.


                      All that does rather bear the hallmark of official edicts.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        I think you overlooked attested historical facts. From your favourite reference source.

                        The Venetian Ghetto was the area of Venice in which Jews were forced to live by the government of the Venetian Republic. The English word ghetto is derived from the Jewish ghetto in Venice. The Venetian Ghetto was instituted on 29 March 1516 by decree of Doge Leonardo Loredan and the Venetian Senate.


                        And here:

                        Ghettoization began in Venice on March 29, 1516, when the Senate ordered all Jews residing in the city to move behind the walls of the Ghetto Nuovo. The decree stipulated that the Jews would be locked into the ghetto at night behind gates and would undergo continual
                        surveillance. Jews could not own ghetto property; therefore, they rented their high-rent apartments in perpetuity. [See: Dana E Katz, The Jewish Ghetto and Visual Imagination of Early Modern Venice, 2017, CUP p.2. Introduction.



                        And here:

                        [...]In 1516 a compromise was reached: all those Jews currently in the city and all those who were to come in the future were to reside segregated behind walls in the area known as the ghetto nuovo, thereby given a new meaning to the word ghetto previously used to refer to an iron foundry on that site. Soon a series of charters [condotte] evolved, authorising those Jews to live in the city for five-year periods and engage in money-lending and the sale of second-hand goods [strazzaria] under carefully stipulated terms. Benjamin Ravid, “The First Charter of the Jewish Merchants of Venice, 1589,” AJS Review, vol. 1 (1976): 187-222.


                        All that does rather bear the hallmark of official edicts.
                        Since you are again citing Wikipedia (while again feeling it necessary to pretend it is an uncommon occurrence...

                        Jewish Ghettos in Europe:
                        The ghetto system began in Renaissance Italy in July 1555 with Pope Paul IV's issuing of the Cum nimis absurdum. This change in papal policy implemented a series of restrictions on Jewish life that dramatically reshaped their place in society.


                        And I'm sure that you own the other works and didn't just get it from, like Here

                        In any case, the point that you are trying to bury with your cavil behavior is that what happened during the Boer War as well as the Reservation system established in the U.S., far more resembles the establishment of ghettos than it does concentration camps.

                        The mass homicide centers that were designed to slaughter people wholesale that were the concentration camps are a unique German construct. And while countries have had places to send folks to work until they eventually die (the old salt mines come to mind), they appear to be the first places ever designed for masses of people to be sent not to work until they die but to work while they awaited mass execution.





                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Since you are again citing Wikipedia (while again feeling it necessary to pretend it is an uncommon occurrence...
                          I was humouring you, knowing as I do that Wiki is your favourite reference source.

                          Jewish Ghettos in Europe:
                          The ghetto system began in Renaissance Italy in July 1555 with Pope Paul IV's issuing of the Cum nimis absurdum. This change in papal policy implemented a series of restrictions on Jewish life that dramatically reshaped their place in society.
                          [/quote]

                          It would appear that the ghetto established in Venice by official edict predates that of Rome albeit by only a few decades.

                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          In any case, the point that you are trying to bury with your cavil behavior is that what happened during the Boer War as well as the Reservation system established in the U.S., far more resembles the establishment of ghettos than it does concentration camps.

                          The mass homicide centers that were designed to slaughter people wholesale that were the concentration camps are a unique German construct. And while countries have had places to send folks to work until they eventually die (the old salt mines come to mind), they appear to be the first places ever designed for masses of people to be sent not to work until they die but to work while they awaited mass execution.
                          I never mentioned "the Reservation system established in the U.S.".

                          Nor is pointing out your error being "cavil".

                          In my original post I cited an article that dealt with the inaccuracies put forward by a British politician [who fancies himself as something of a historian rather as does his former leader Boris Johnson] concerning the British concentration camps. I made it clear that the Nazi camps were unique in that they were intended for mass extermination. I even highlighted the relevant sentences in the original article.

                          However, that does not alter the fact that the British did concentrate over 100,000 people and some 48,000 died from disease and hunger.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I was humouring you, knowing as I do that Wiki is your favourite reference source.
                            You do love to project.

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            Oh, what do we have here? Someone is using "my" favorite source yet again

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            The ghetto system began in Renaissance Italy in July 1555 with Pope Paul IV's issuing of the Cum nimis absurdum. This change in papal policy implemented a series of restrictions on Jewish life that dramatically reshaped their place in society.


                            It would appear that the ghetto established in Venice by official edict predates that of Rome albeit by only a few decades.
                            It would seem that "official" is the operative word. One could claim that the Roman ghetto was already largely the Jewish quarter centuries prior to it being made official.

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            I never mentioned "the Reservation system established in the U.S.".
                            So? Both it and the camps established during the Boer War have erroneously been considered predecessors to the concentration camps of the Nazis when it would be far more accurate to compare them to a continuation of the ghetto system (which the Nazis also employed).

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            Nor is pointing out your error being "cavil".
                            That would first require that you point out an actual error

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                            In my original post I cited an article that dealt with the inaccuracies put forward by a British politician [who fancies himself as something of a historian rather as does his former leader Boris Johnson] concerning the British concentration camps. I made it clear that the Nazi camps were unique in that they were intended for mass extermination. I even highlighted the relevant sentences in the original article.
                            Again, the so-called "British concentration camps" far more resembled the ghetto system that had been established centuries earlier than the mass extermination facilities that the Nazis set up.

                            Comparing them to what the Nazis did reeks of trying to minimize what the latter did. I mean what's next from you? Outright Holocaust denialism? You keep inching closer and closer.



                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              You do love to project.


                              Oh, what do we have here? Someone is using "my" favorite source yet again


                              It would seem that "official" is the operative word. One could claim that the Roman ghetto was already largely the Jewish quarter centuries prior to it being made official.


                              So? Both it and the camps established during the Boer War have erroneously been considered predecessors to the concentration camps of the Nazis when it would be far more accurate to compare them to a continuation of the ghetto system (which the Nazis also employed).


                              That would first require that you point out an actual error


                              Again, the so-called "British concentration camps" far more resembled the ghetto system that had been established centuries earlier than the mass extermination facilities that the Nazis set up.

                              Comparing them to what the Nazis did reeks of trying to minimize what the latter did. I mean what's next from you? Outright Holocaust denialism? You keep inching closer and closer.

                              The article was not from me.

                              The article noted:

                              Rees-Mogg was right on one point: the concentration camps didn’t have the same aims as Adolf Hitler’s extermination camps during the Second World War. The aim in South Africa wasn’t systematic murder.


                              And I have previously pointed out those remarks from the article to you.

                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                              The idea of concentrating certain people was used by the British. However, as I made clear with my emphasis on the ante-penultimate and penultimate sentences in that article.

                              Rees-Mogg was right on one point: the concentration camps didn’t have the same aims as Adolf Hitler’s extermination camps during the Second World War. The aim in South Africa wasn’t systematic murder.



                              That short term memory problem of yours appears to be getting worse.


                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                The article was not from me.

                                The article noted:

                                Rees-Mogg was right on one point: the concentration camps didn’t have the same aims as Adolf Hitler’s extermination camps during the Second World War. The aim in South Africa wasn’t systematic murder.


                                And I have previously pointed out those remarks from the article to you.




                                That short term memory problem of yours appears to be getting worse.

                                That little difference makes all the difference and demonstrates why comparisons of those things to the Holocaust are worthless.

                                What's next, that tree is just like a car except for...

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                78 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                52 responses
                                274 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                195 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                83 responses
                                352 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Working...
                                X