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The last few hours at one US abortion clinic

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Applying emotional pressure to vulnerable women is highly questionable






    Interesting logic. The latter statement contradicts the first one.

    Even if giving birth at such a young age could lead to physical damage that could prevent her having a child in the future? That is not unknown. Just because a young girl can become pregnant it does not follow that she can safely give birth. Firstly, the pelvis does not fully widen until the late teens and secondly if she does have a vaginal delivery she risks damage to her vagina, her rectum and her bladder,
    So it's wrong for a pregnancy center to encourage a vulnerable woman to keep her baby, but not wrong for an abortion butcher shop to encourage that same woman to murder it. Nice standard you have there.

    And no where did I say or imply that an 11 year old giving birth would be easy, but unless her life is physically endangered, no, murder is not the solution. But there you go trying to argue for the rule with an extreme exception.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      To put the recent ruling into context, not that it will make any difference to some here, I am providing some pertinent sections from an article in The New Yorker magazine. The article was published on 25 June. The situation is far from "black and white" as so many would like to believe.



      A ruling on Roe v. Wade was imminent and the procedure could be banned at any time, Ivy would warn the pregnant women who approached the front desk, after the perfunctory good mornings. Friday, patients began arriving at eight o’clock, having negotiated picketers who were working the parking lot. “Let me see your I.D., mija,” Ivy said to the first woman to reach the light-filled lobby, where a large fish tank was murmuring away. The woman, dressed in black pants and a gray hoodie, was assigned a patient number to protect her privacy. Only four weeks along, she, like the vast majority of the morning’s patients, was coming for her second of two visits. As mandated by Texas law, women have to wait at least twenty-four hours after receiving paperwork and a sonogram that confirms their pregnancies. Now she was returning in hopes of having a second sonogram and then the abortion. To the right of the desk where Ivy checked her in was a framed proclamation, signed by the mayor of Houston, honoring the forty-fourth anniversary of Roe v. Wade.

      Despite the tension, for the next hour, the workers tried to focus on their particular responsibilities, including answering the phone, which rang constantly. The faster they worked, the more patients they could ready to see the doctor, who would either give the eligible women pills to begin a medication abortion or proceed with a surgical one. But at 9:11 a.m., before the doctor had walked through the door and any abortions had commenced, Sheila heard from an A.C.L.U. lawyer. “Roe, overturned,” she said flatly. Ivy, emerging from the lab, hadn’t caught Sheila’s exact words, but she understood them when she saw her hands shaking.

      For a few seconds, no one said a word. Ivy retreated to an area of the clinic where women’s vitals were taken and a urine sample awaited analysis. Alone, she pressed her fingers to her welling eyes. Other workers wrapped their arms around one another. Confused, one of the patients left her seat and interrupted their silence. “Why are y’all crying?” she asked. Sheila, trying to collect herself, wiped her tears away and turned to the woman and three other patients in the waiting room. “Ladies, I’m so sorry to tell you that the law for abortion has been overturned,” she said. “We are not able to perform any abortions at this time, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t have an option, O.K.?”

      Two of the patients, wearing bright fluffy slippers, stared into space, speechless. A third, who wore black horn-rimmed glasses, burst into sobs. The fourth, who spoke no English, asked, “Qué pasó?” Sheila kneeled by her side, and, in broken Spanish, said, “No podemos hacerlo ahora,” meaning “We can’t do it now.” The woman, who was of Cuban origin, had no reaction, so Sheila asked Ivy to do a better translation. “Mi amor, the Supreme Court just ruled that abortion is banned in Texas,” she said in Spanish. “We cannot assist you.” The woman froze, in disbelief.

      Ivy handed her a leaflet with the National Abortion Federation’s phone number and urged her to call it to learn about options in other states. The leaflet was in English. The guidance it contained included contact details of three abortion funds, two of which had immediately ceased operations upon announcement of the ruling. “They don’t do it in Texas anymore?” the woman asked, her eyes widening. Ivy shook her head, resting her hand on the woman’s shoulder.

      Over and over again, Ivy conveyed the same message to two dozen other women who had been waiting to see the doctor. She could share the results of the ultrasounds the women had just done, but the clinic was unable to perform the procedure that they’d come for. “Abortion, no more,” Ivy told one woman sitting in the lobby, eyes down. In her distress, her perfect fluency in two languages seemed to disappear, momentarily, but then she gathered herself. “You’re gonna call them,” Ivy said, handing over the now outdated leaflet while fighting back her own tears, “and they’re gonna guide you, O.K.?”

      Some patients fled the clinic the moment that they heard the news. When Ivy called their numbers to offer what little advice she could give, there was silence. Sheila felt especially pained by a woman whose previous medication abortion had failed and who had come back that morning believing that, this time, the treatment would work. Other patients simply refused to accept the news and leave the clinic. One of them clasped Ivy’s arm and would not let go. “Please help me,” she whispered, offering to give her a stash of money in exchange for abortion pills. “We can’t do it,” Ivy insisted. “It’s against the law.” The woman begged her: she would take the pills at home—no one would have to know. “Your husband has to take you to another state,” Ivy said, her tone severe. “Abortion is not legal.”

      Before long, the afternoon’s patients started showing up, despite the voice mails that workers had been leaving. Every time the door alarm chimed, staff members turned in unison to the front entrance, their faces drawn. “I’m not sure if you’ve heard the news,” the receptionist told a woman who seemed on the brink of tears. Another patient arrived and, baffled, asked Sheila what the law was now. “Since Roe v. Wade has been overturned, it goes back to each state making the decision,” she explained. “So, obviously, we live in a conservative state and it becomes illegal.” Around her, Sheila’s colleagues were already starting to refer to Roe in the past tense, as if evoking some distant era in which abortion had been a right.

      Inside, a decision that had been in the air for months was suddenly concrete: after more than forty years, the clinic would be closing. On the phone with one of the medical assistants, a pregnant woman screamed furiously, before dropping the phone, “I guess I’ll just have to take matters into my own hands, won’t I?” The clinic’s counsellors knew of patients who had thrown themselves down a flight of stairs or had seriously contemplated suicide. “We’ll see more babies in the dumpsters,” Lupe, another medical assistant, said. She was most worried about the women who could not travel out of state and Latina patients she had treated throughout the years, some of whom were illiterate. With the staff at the clinic gone, who would pass on information about alternatives now?

      Lingering in the parking lot, uncertain, was the Cuban woman who had earlier been given a leaflet that listed options she couldn’t read. As she left the clinic, a picketer named Raúl had tried to lure her into a large bus that could take her to the Houston Coalition for Life, which he referred to as a “medical center,” but she decided to walk past him. “I can’t keep the child. I already have three,” she said, adding that they were aged two, four, and eight. The woman was five weeks into her pregnancy. “Why would they do this?” she said of the Court. The woman said that she couldn’t afford to travel to another state. Even the fund that was meant to pay for her abortion that day had gone dark. But she was convinced that she would find a way. A friend of hers had told her about a Mexican man who could go to her home and perform the procedure. “She told me that, if things didn’t work out at the clinic, I could always call him,” she said hopefully, looking straight at the closed clinic door.
      Perhaps you could find an old article bemoaning when a segregated public school shut down or was desegregated as a result of Brown overturning 80 years of life under Plessy

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        Applying emotional pressure to vulnerable women is highly questionable
        I agree, something planned parenthood was notorious for.
        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          So it's wrong for a pregnancy center to encourage a vulnerable woman to keep her baby, but not wrong for an abortion butcher shop to encourage that same woman to murder it. Nice standard you have there.
          All depends on what the ultimate goal here is.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #35


            Originally posted by the article
            The woman, dressed in black pants and a gray hoodie, was assigned a patient number to protect her privacy. Only four weeks along, she, like the vast majority of the morning’s patients, was coming for her second of two visits. As mandated by Texas law, women have to wait at least twenty-four hours after receiving paperwork and a sonogram that confirms their pregnancies.
            later in the same article, another woman

            As she left the clinic, a picketer named Raúl had tried to lure her into a large bus that could take her to the Houston Coalition for Life, which he referred to as a “medical center,” but she decided to walk past him. “I can’t keep the child. I already have three,” she said, adding that they were aged two, four, and eight. The woman was five weeks into her pregnancy.
            Is the information in the Wiki article wrong? Or did Texas have a different law awaiting the trigger?

            Originally posted by Wikipedia
            Abortion in Texas is illegal in most cases. As of September 1, 2021, abortion is illegal in Texas once a fetal heartbeat can be detected. The Texas Heartbeat Act prohibits abortion when there is a detectable heartbeat, which may be as early as 6 weeks into a woman's pregnancy.

            The rights and wrongs of any decisions by a court aside, justices are not appointed to decide what the law should be, that is the task of legislatures.
            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
              Applying emotional pressure to vulnerable women is highly questionable
              Like making women take mind-affecting drugs before meeting the abortionist and before giving final consent for the procedure? That sort of mistreatment of vulnerable women?

              https://www.liveaction.org/news/unde...iubIBNI-2dRfp8

              Live Action released new undercover footage today from inside the Washington Surgi-Clinic abortion facility in Washington, D.C., owned and operated by abortionist Cesare Santangelo. The footage shows that the abortion business requires pregnant women to take Xanax, a medication that can cause drowsiness and impair memory, before meeting with the abortionist and giving final consent for an abortion. The Washington Surgi-Clinic is the same facility where the bodies of over 100 babies were obtained by pro-lifers, including five babies who appeared to have been killed late in pregnancy, possibly by illegal means.

              The woman involved in the filming of the undercover video, who was 28 weeks pregnant at the time, has filed a complaint with the D.C. medical board regarding this breach of ethics surrounding informed consent. Experts who have filed affidavits supporting the complaint say that making patients consume mind-altering medication prior to meeting with the abortionist is a grave violation of basic medical ethics.

              The complaint notes that “acute administration of Xanax risks ‘cognitive impairment,’ which includes ‘poor attention and anterograde amnesia’ as manifested by ‘difficulties learning new material.'” It also states, “administering Xanax prior to a full medical consultation appears to be a negligent, if not reckless, practice of medicine. It also appears highly unlikely that introducing benzodiazepines before said consultation is a prevailing standard of acceptable medical practice” and asks that the D.C. Medical Board “begin an investigation into Dr. Santangelo and Surgi-Clinic and whether the practice of requiring use of benzodiazepines prior to medical consultation warrants the imposition of sanctions or disciplinary action here.”

              Xanax pills come in different colors based on dosage, and the nurse tells the patient “the two blue ones are the Xanax.” Blue Xanax are typically 1 mg each, except for the blue Xanax bars, which are 2 mg each. The recommended starting dosage of Xanax is 0.25 mg to 0.5 mg administered three times daily. According to Drugs.com, the dosage may be increased every three to four days in increments of no more than 1 mg per day. Some individuals have reported memory loss or blacking out after taking Xanax, and higher doses will have a stronger effect.

              What the experts say

              Dr. C. Ben Mitchell, ethicist and former Graves Chair of Moral Philosophy at Union University, reviewed the video footage and explained that it “indicates a likely ethical violation and could warrant further inquiry due to it demonstrating that patients were required to ingest Xanax before a full medical consultation could occur.”

              Dr. Mitchell continued, “Being a physician entails profound ethical responsibilities and professional duties to the patient to inform, treat, and care. The physician himself or herself is ultimately responsible to ensure informed consent, in which the patient understands the diagnosis, treatment options, potential outcomes, and possible complications of a procedure or medication. That means being available to the patient to answer any questions the patient has about his or her care. Failure to do so is a dereliction of duty.”

              In the video, a nurse is seen telling the patient, “Uh, well, unfortunately, [the pills] need to be in your system in order for the doctor to do the procedure.” When the patient asks if the Xanax she is being told to take will affect her “clarity of thinking,” the nurse responds, “It shouldn’t. I mean, you might be a little sleepy…” She adds, “[W]e have to make sure that — that’s in your system before you talk to the doctor. He’s not going to be able to speak with you until he is ready to do [the abortion]. And you’re actually pants off in the room.” (emphasis added)

              It is highly unethical for a doctor to refuse to speak to a patient about the procedure she is about to undergo until she is medicated with a drug that can impair clarity of thinking, and is in a vulnerable and unclothed position in the room in which she will have the abortion.

              Dr. Christina Francis, CEO Elect of the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists (AAPLOG) reviewed the footage and explained:

              Xanax is a substance that, in a patient who is not used to taking it, would most definitely impair her judgment and therefore her ability to give truly informed consent. There is no reason a medication like this should be routinely given to a patient prior to her meeting with a physician and going through the consent process.

              Oftentimes patients are not allowed to drive or operate heavy machinery for up to 24 hours after even minor procedures due to sedating medications they have received that impair their competence to make complex decisions. Xanax is a clear sedative, especially in a patient naïve to that medication.

              Additional concerns not in the complaint

              In addition to revealing this breach of ethics at the Washington Surgi-Clinic, the nurse in the footage provides further confirmation that the facility commits late-term abortions without using feticide to ensure fetal death. This increases the chance that babies will be born alive during abortions. A previous Live Action investigation showed Dr. Santangelo admitting that any children accidentally born alive during abortions would not receive any medical assistance to survive — neglect that is illegal under federal law.

              Rather than give the preborn child an injection of digoxin meant to cause cardiac arrest, the nurse explains that the abortionist will kill the baby “as humanely as possible.” But as was also confirmed by Live Action’s previous investigation, Dr. Santangelo causes the baby’s death by cutting the umbilical cord and waiting for the child to die, drastically increasing the chance that a child may be born alive and then killed, which is a federal crime. The nurse tells the woman that her 28-week baby’s body would “go[] to medical waste.”

              Tragically, the video footage also shows the nurse telling the patient that she may have to deliver her stillborn (or possibly living, premature) baby alone in her hotel room, admitting, “there is a possibility that you could go into premature labor.” The patient expresses concern about what hotel staff might think, were this to happen. The nurse brushes off these concerns.

              She then asks the patient to sign paperwork stating that they spoke about the possibility of premature labor, reiterating, “You may go into premature labor and deliver the fetus in your hotel.” She adds, “We could just tell you what to do with the remains.”

              Live Action President and Founder Lila Rose said in a press release:

              The undercover footage released today shows that the [Washington] Surgi-Clinic abortion facility is forcing mothers to take mind-altering medications before meeting with the abortionist and giving final consent. This is a grave violation of basic medical ethics, and the patient has filed a complaint with the D.C. medical board.

              The footage also provides first-hand testimony that the Washington-Surgi Clinic performs late-term abortions without a feticidal drug, increasing the chance that babies would be born alive and then brutally and illegally killed. Tragically, this footage also shows the nurse relaying the reality that the patient may be left to deliver her dead child alone in her hotel room.

              Rose called for the abortion business to be closed down.

              It is clear that the government of Washington, D.C., including Mayor Muriel Bowser, the D.C. medical examiner, and the Chief of Police, must investigate Santangelo and his abortion facility. They are not only killing children through abortion, but may also be committing illegal infanticide and other federal crimes such as ‘partial-birth’ (D&X) abortions.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                Applying emotional pressure to vulnerable women is highly questionable

                Well, well. Looky here.

                https://www.lifenews.com/2022/02/18/...ting-abortion/


                Noemi Padilla’s story begins like a lot of former abortion workers’. She took the job because of her desire to help women.


                At first, working for the Florida abortion facility seemed perfect. It was more money and closer to home than her current nursing job. The staff seemed friendly and the workload easier, and she would be helping women in desperate situations.

                But slowly and steadily, Padilla began to feel herself die inside – a “death by a thousand cuts” – as she helped to abort baby after baby and ignored the true needs of their suffering mothers.

                CBN News report Padilla quit the Florida abortion facility after four years with the help of And Then There Were None, a pro-life ministry that provides counseling and support to abortion workers leaving the industry. Now, she is sharing her story publicly.


                “I felt walking in [to the abortion job] that I was going to be doing the best possible mercy care,” she told CBN. “What better care to give than for somebody going through such a hard time at that moment?”

                As time went on, however, Padilla began to struggle with the things that she saw and began doing herself.

                “A clinic where abortions are performed is awash in death. What may not be as apparent is the death that occurs to those who work there, like me—death by a thousand cuts,” she wrote in a piece on the And Then There Were None website.


                She told CBN that abortions were done in a robotic, assembly-line fashion, and money was prioritized above women’s needs. The longer she worked at the abortion facility, the more she struggled with her own doubts. She said abortion workers are “the biggest liars to ourselves.”

                Finally, “I couldn’t face myself in the mirror,” she remembered.

                Four years in, Padilla hit the final straw after she helped to “railroad” a woman into a late-term, $7,000 abortion.

                “Audrey (not her real name) who had initially confused us with a nearby pregnancy center, came to get sonograms every month since becoming pregnant,” Padilla said. “I had been feeling an extreme desire to help a pregnant woman who didn’t want an abortion, so we were a perfect match. Over five months, I was able to joyfully perform the sonograms and watch as her healthy baby grew steadily and surely.”

                Then, one day, a local hospital rushed Audrey to them for an “emergency” abortion after they said her unborn baby was diagnosed with a fetal anomaly, Padilla said.

                “I watched the development of her baby for all those months and I knew the baby was as healthy as an ox. Was it all a mistake?” she asked.

                Padilla tried to find out, but she said she felt like she was being “muzzled.” So, she simply sat there quietly, holding Audrey’s hand as her baby was being aborted.

                “My old self would have turned over tables to fight for a woman who was being railroaded into aborting a baby she wanted and had no fetal anomaly,” she said. “But beaten down as I was, I sat there unable to summon the fight anymore. I let that woman go through the procedure without once raising my voice. I would see the medical records later. Nothing seemed to indicate the need for an emergency termination.”


                After that day, Padilla finally quit. Thanks to a local pro-life sidewalk counselor, she said she knew about And Then There Were None, and she contacted them. There, founder Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood manager, and others showed her the love and forgiveness that comes through Jesus.

                Padilla told CBN that quitting was difficult, but she is glad she now has the chance to speak up for life.




                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #38
                  And another one. A simple search shows a bunch of these terrible coerced abortions.

                  https://clinicquotes.com/womans-husb...nted-abortion/

                  Abortion Clinic Staff Force Her into an Unwanted Abortion

                  nwanted Abortion



                  “I went to the abortion clinic with the idea of stopping the procedure at the last-minute. That way, I thought, I could appease my husband. At least it would seem like I had tried to please him. Looking back, I realize I was afraid my husband…

                  We were led into a counseling room by a woman with a pleasant smile. After we sat down, I told her, “Deep inside my heart, I know there is no justification for an abortion.”

                  Ralph glared at me. He said, “She thinks she is carrying a baby and not just a blob of cells.” The counselor assured me that my baby was “just a pinhead.” Both she and my husband argued with me. She said, “You can do this. You don’t have to want it or like it. It’s best to make this sacrifice for the well-being of your two boys.” My husband begged me, “Please do it!”… “Wouldn’t you remove a tumor?” She said. As she shoved the papers at me to sign, she told me, “You can stop the abortion at any time.”

                  When it was time to go into the operating room, I crouched down outside the door and whimpered, “I can’t do this.” Two smiling women, one on each side of me, lifted me up and pushed me into the room. The doctor was upset with me because I was crying. Many times, I told him, “I don’t want to. I don’t want to!”…
                  They gave her anesthesia, knocked her out, and did the abortion.

                  “That night when my crying kept Ralph awake, he yelled at me, “What’s wrong with you? We got rid of the problem!” The next morning, after a night without sleep, I urged Ralph to look on the Internet for what happened to women after an abortion.

                  He searched WebMD and found only one article. He showed it to me and pointed to one sentence: “Most women do not regret abortion.” He grinned knowingly and said, “You see? You’re crazy, you’re creating this problem. You’ll be okay.” I cried.”








                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Perhaps you could find an old article bemoaning when a segregated public school shut down or was desegregated as a result of Brown overturning 80 years of life under Plessy
                    Wait, you mean this is NOT the very first time that SCOTUS overruled itself?

                    (you'd never know it from the media)
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                      Well, well. Looky here.

                      https://www.lifenews.com/2022/02/18/...ting-abortion/


                      Noemi Padilla’s story begins like a lot of former abortion workers’. She took the job because of her desire to help women.


                      At first, working for the Florida abortion facility seemed perfect. It was more money and closer to home than her current nursing job. The staff seemed friendly and the workload easier, and she would be helping women in desperate situations.

                      But slowly and steadily, Padilla began to feel herself die inside – a “death by a thousand cuts” – as she helped to abort baby after baby and ignored the true needs of their suffering mothers.

                      CBN News report Padilla quit the Florida abortion facility after four years with the help of And Then There Were None, a pro-life ministry that provides counseling and support to abortion workers leaving the industry. Now, she is sharing her story publicly.


                      “I felt walking in [to the abortion job] that I was going to be doing the best possible mercy care,” she told CBN. “What better care to give than for somebody going through such a hard time at that moment?”

                      As time went on, however, Padilla began to struggle with the things that she saw and began doing herself.

                      “A clinic where abortions are performed is awash in death. What may not be as apparent is the death that occurs to those who work there, like me—death by a thousand cuts,” she wrote in a piece on the And Then There Were None website.


                      She told CBN that abortions were done in a robotic, assembly-line fashion, and money was prioritized above women’s needs. The longer she worked at the abortion facility, the more she struggled with her own doubts. She said abortion workers are “the biggest liars to ourselves.”

                      Finally, “I couldn’t face myself in the mirror,” she remembered.

                      Four years in, Padilla hit the final straw after she helped to “railroad” a woman into a late-term, $7,000 abortion.

                      “Audrey (not her real name) who had initially confused us with a nearby pregnancy center, came to get sonograms every month since becoming pregnant,” Padilla said. “I had been feeling an extreme desire to help a pregnant woman who didn’t want an abortion, so we were a perfect match. Over five months, I was able to joyfully perform the sonograms and watch as her healthy baby grew steadily and surely.”

                      Then, one day, a local hospital rushed Audrey to them for an “emergency” abortion after they said her unborn baby was diagnosed with a fetal anomaly, Padilla said.

                      “I watched the development of her baby for all those months and I knew the baby was as healthy as an ox. Was it all a mistake?” she asked.

                      Padilla tried to find out, but she said she felt like she was being “muzzled.” So, she simply sat there quietly, holding Audrey’s hand as her baby was being aborted.

                      “My old self would have turned over tables to fight for a woman who was being railroaded into aborting a baby she wanted and had no fetal anomaly,” she said. “But beaten down as I was, I sat there unable to summon the fight anymore. I let that woman go through the procedure without once raising my voice. I would see the medical records later. Nothing seemed to indicate the need for an emergency termination.”


                      After that day, Padilla finally quit. Thanks to a local pro-life sidewalk counselor, she said she knew about And Then There Were None, and she contacted them. There, founder Abby Johnson, a former Planned Parenthood manager, and others showed her the love and forgiveness that comes through Jesus.

                      Padilla told CBN that quitting was difficult, but she is glad she now has the chance to speak up for life.


                      Some of our best workers at the Pregnancy Center are former Abortion Clinic Workers from the "Clinic" (Abortion Mill) we shut down some time ago, then bought the property, and turned it into a pregnancy center in its own right.

                      (I believe there's thread here about that, or was that pre-crash?)
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Some of our best workers at the Pregnancy Center are former Abortion Clinic Workers from the "Clinic" (Abortion Mill) we shut down some time ago, then bought the property, and turned it into a pregnancy center in its own right.

                        (I believe there's thread here about that, or was that pre-crash?)
                        TWeb 3 if I remember rightly, if it is the same thread that I'm thinking of.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                        Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                        "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          So it's wrong for a pregnancy center to encourage a vulnerable woman to keep her baby
                          If, pre the ruling on Roe vs Wade, a woman had approached such a centre of her own volition, exactly as she did an abortion clinic, that centre would be entitled to present the alternative argument but without resorting to emotional blackmail.

                          However, if after consulting them, she still made the decision to abort, there should have been an end to it. No pressure, no further discussion and certainly no no emotional or psychological coercion. However, sending buses to abortion clinics and having staff loitering around the main entrance soliciting for clients was not [in my opinion] appropriate.

                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          but not wrong for an abortion butcher shop to encourage that same woman to murder it.
                          Once again you seem to imagine predatory abortionists snatching pregnant from the street and intimidating them into having abortions.

                          Women went voluntarily to abortion clinics. The decision was made by each woman.
                          .
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          And no where did I say or imply that an 11 year old giving birth would be easy
                          I never wrote that you did. However, there is medical evidence that young teens [or children] becoming pregnant and giving birth carries high risks, as medical practitioners know from countries where the practise of child brides operates.

                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          but unless her life is physically endangered, no, murder is not the solution.
                          You seem to have little regard for the child's mental and psychological health or the possible impact on her future fertility.

                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          But there you go trying to argue for the rule with an extreme exception.
                          I agree that example was an exception [at least in the USA] although such cases are known in many countries, including your own.

                          However, your response is remarkably predictable.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Perhaps you could find an old article bemoaning when a segregated public school shut down or was desegregated as a result of Brown overturning 80 years of life under Plessy
                            Interestingly it was segregation that led to evangelical Christians becoming involved in the abortion issue. Campaigning to save babies was better PR than campaigning to continue to allow certain institutions [e.g. Lynchburg Christian School and Bob Jones "university"] practise segregation. Read some of Randall Balmer's books.

                            His latest is reviewed here: https://religionnews.com/2021/09/22/...ligious-right/

                            White evangelicals have long held that the 1973 Supreme Court ruling legalizing abortion propelled the rise of the political movement known as the religious right.

                            Wrong, says Randall Balmer, who in his new book, “Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right,” argues that race, rather than abortion, galvanized white evangelical political action.

                            Specifically, as Balmer shows, it was government interference in “segregation academies” such as Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, that launched the religious right. Bob Jones and other schools, such as Jerry Falwell’s Lynchburg Christian Academy, refused to admit Black students. As a result, President Richard Nixon ordered the Internal Revenue Service to deny them tax-exempt status as a charitable institution.


                            That took a while. As Balmer shows, when the Supreme Court legalized abortion, few white evangelicals had anything bad to say about abortion. Baptists such as W.A. Criswell, the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, applauded the ruling. But by the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, the strategy began to bear fruit.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The reaction of the left to this ruling shows the heart of who they are --- rioting, anger, hatred, threats.....

                              The Culture of Death is in a self-professed 'rage' because killing babies has become more difficult in some States.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                Interestingly it was segregation that led to evangelical Christians becoming involved in the abortion issue. Campaigning to save babies was better PR than campaigning to continue to allow certain institutions [e.g. Lynchburg Christian School and Bob Jones "university"] practise segregation. Read some of Randall Balmer's books.

                                His latest is reviewed here: https://religionnews.com/2021/09/22/...ligious-right/

                                White evangelicals have long held that the 1973 Supreme Court ruling legalizing abortion propelled the rise of the political movement known as the religious right.

                                Wrong, says Randall Balmer, who in his new book, “Bad Faith: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right,” argues that race, rather than abortion, galvanized white evangelical political action.

                                Specifically, as Balmer shows, it was government interference in “segregation academies” such as Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina, that launched the religious right. Bob Jones and other schools, such as Jerry Falwell’s Lynchburg Christian Academy, refused to admit Black students. As a result, President Richard Nixon ordered the Internal Revenue Service to deny them tax-exempt status as a charitable institution.


                                That took a while. As Balmer shows, when the Supreme Court legalized abortion, few white evangelicals had anything bad to say about abortion. Baptists such as W.A. Criswell, the former president of the Southern Baptist Convention and pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, applauded the ruling. But by the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980, the strategy began to bear fruit.
                                Do you have a habit of promoting historical revisionism, because you've been posting a bunch of it lately.

                                This gaslighting might work on some but a large share of the posters lived through the 70s and still remember what happened.


                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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