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A Win For Religious Liberty!

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    This is one of Gond's hobby horses that he's jumped on before, but if his overly literal reading of scripture is correct then that would make Jesus a hypocrite because there are several instances where he is recorded as openly praying before large crowds.
    I like Gondy -- we agree on so much, that I really hate to get in battles with him over stuff like this.

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      I like Gondy -- we agree on so much, that I really hate to get in battles with him over stuff like this.
      Interestingly, I've even some Christians make the exact same argument (even to the point of refusing to pray in church!) while ignoring all the times in scripture where public prayer is not condemned.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        OK, so which of Christ's words is he disobeying? I'm curious.
        Already quoted.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Interestingly, I've even some Christians make the exact same argument (even to the point of refusing to pray in church!) while ignoring all the times in scripture where public prayer is not condemned.
          It is quite obvious that the context of Jesus' comments was His constant battle with the hypocrisy of the Jewish religious leaders who pushed rules and regs on others, while not keeping those same rules and regs for themselves, as opposed to this football coach who has been very consistent in his faithfulness to Christ.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            Scripture
            Does
            Not
            Condemn
            Public
            Prayer
            In
            Every
            Instance

            'nuff said.
            You're welcome to show us the scripture that says that posing to be seen nationwide in front of the SCOTUS building is an exception.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              Yes, I'm well aware of that, but it's still part of the overall "not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ" thing.
              Nope.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                Nope.
                Yup.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  You're welcome to show us the scripture that says that posing to be seen nationwide in front of the SCOTUS building is an exception.
                  You're welcome to show us the scripture that says that posing to be seen nationwide in front of the SCOTUS building is prohibited.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    It is quite obvious that the context of Jesus' comments was His constant battle with the hypocrisy of the Jewish religious leaders who pushed rules and regs on others, while not keeping those same rules and regs for themselves, as opposed to this football coach who has been very consistent in his faithfulness to Christ.
                    Oh you mean things like being mad and trying to ban public prayer/religious freedom of others while wanting to be seen publicly praying yourself? Hmmmm... sounds like most Christians in the West.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      You're welcome to show us the scripture that says that posing to be seen nationwide in front of the SCOTUS building is prohibited.
                      Already quoted.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                        Already quoted.
                        Out of context and inapplicable.

                        Look, I love you, Gondy - you're one of my favorite posters, so I'm just going to allow you to be wrong on this, and still treat you as a friend.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

                          2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

                          5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

                          7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
                          So, people are admonished not to put on public displays for the purpose of self promotion - that goes to motive. I'm not sure that anyone other than the person concerned can declare the motive with enough certitude to make self appointment as a judge viable.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by seer View Post

                            We can walk and chew gum at the same time...
                            Not in my area. Most churches I've gone to or know of don't make any public statement or advocation for Jesus. They're very passive. "We're here and if people want to learn about Jesus, God will bring them in" seems to sum up their attitude.
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                              You're welcome to show us the scripture that says that posing to be seen nationwide in front of the SCOTUS building is an exception.
                              Obviously you won't find such a specific exception in scripture, but we do see numerous instances where people openly prayed in public without condemnation. There's obviously more to it than simply praying where others can see you. For instance, the prophet Daniel openly defied the king's edict by praying in front of his window instead of hiding in an inner room and praying in secret, and God honored him for his devotion. If Jesus' words were meant as literally as you assume, then God should have condemned Daniel and left him to his fate in the lions den. That's just one of many, many examples. Another is Jesus praying before a crowd of thousands before performing the miracle of dividing the fish and loaves of bread.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Out of context and inapplicable.

                                Look, I love you, Gondy - you're one of my favorite posters, so I'm just going to allow you to be wrong on this, and still treat you as a friend.
                                Perfectly in context and extremely applicable especially with him going around doing photo ops to further push his performative praying.

                                Look, I get it, it's hard for many of today's Christians to do anything other than be performative in their prayer to make themselves look better than others including other Christians. It's an addiction related to the persecution complex most of them have. It's the age of social media. The rest of us get it.

                                Comment

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