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A Win For Religious Liberty!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

    Nowhere in the Bible does it suggest that public prayer is something only Pharisees and hypocrites do. On the contrary, there are numerous examples in scripture of righteous people openly praying and honoring God in public.
    1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

    2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

    7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Yep totally not doing it to be seen by others.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

        2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

        5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

        7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
        Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
          Note the lack of the words "so people can see you praying publicly and kneeling for photo ops in front of the Supreme Court".

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Note the lack of the words "so people can see you praying publicly and kneeling for photo ops in front of the Supreme Court".
            Whether you think this coach violate a Christian principle or not, the fact is he had a Constitutional right to do it....
            Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by seer View Post

              Whether you think this coach violate a Christian principle or not, the fact is he had a Constitutional right to do it....
              I already stated so in my first post. Why are you so pressed?

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                I already stated so in my first post. Why are you so pressed?
                Missed it...
                Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.

                  2 “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

                  5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

                  7 “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
                  Yes, if you are praying or doing good works as a public spectacle to be seen by others, then it is wrong. But there are examples throughout scripture where people are honored by God for honoring him in public, such as Daniel who refused to hide but prayed in front of an open window where he could be seen by the whole city; Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who openly defied a king, saying they would bow to no one but God; Paul and Silas in prison who were singing and praying where all the prisoners could hear. Even Jesus prayed in front of large crowds on several occasions.

                  So obviously, it's not praying in public that is a sin, it is praying in public with the wrong motives. A simple litmus test is to ask who is receiving the honor and glory: is it God, or is it the person?
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by seer View Post

                    Missed it...
                    Fair enough. I have no problem with someone praying as publicly as they want so long as they are not coercing others to do so, and I think that should be constitutionally protected.

                    (though I do wonder if we'd see a similar level of support from Christians if this was instead a Muslim coach doing his Maghrib Salah or Isha Salah on the 50 yard line.... I suspect the reaction would be a bit different)

                    I just find it entertaining to see them behave just like Jesus told them not to behave, praying in order to be seen. Performative prayer seems to be more and more common in Western Christianity. May be linked to Western Christianity's persecution complex in some way.
                    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 06-27-2022, 11:59 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      Yes, if you are praying or doing good works as a public spectacle to be seen by others, then it is wrong.
                      Which is what he's doing. You literally just posted him doing a prayer photo op in front of the freaking SCOTUS building, my dude.

                      He could have easily prayed there before anyone got there. Or after everyone left. Or in his office after the game. But instead he chose to go to the literal middle of the feeld and kneel for his performative prayer (and as people joined him, began to give religiou-tinged speeches, IIRC)

                      But there are examples throughout scripture where people are honored by God for honoring him in public, such as Daniel who refused to hide but prayed in front of an open window where he could be seen by the whole city; Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who openly defied a king, saying they would bow to no one but God; Paul and Silas in prison who were singing and praying where all the prisoners could hear. Even Jesus prayed in front of large crowds on several occasions.

                      So obviously, it's not praying in public that is a sin, it is praying in public with the wrong motives. A simple litmus test is to ask who is receiving the honor and glory: is it God, or is it the person?
                      Photo
                      Op
                      In
                      Front
                      Of
                      SCOTUS
                      Building

                      'nuff said.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                        Which is what he's doing. You literally just posted him doing a prayer photo op in front of the freaking SCOTUS building, my dude.



                        Photo
                        Op
                        In
                        Front
                        Of
                        SCOTUS
                        Building

                        'nuff said.
                        So you can read his mind? You know that his motivation was to bring honor to himself and not to God?
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          Fair enough. I have no problem with someone praying as publicly as they want so long as they are not coercing others to do so, and I think that should be constitutionally protected.

                          (though I do wonder if we'd see a similar level of support from Christians if this was instead a Muslim coach doing his Maghrib Salah or Isha Salah on the 50 yard line.... I suspect the reaction would be a bit different)
                          I'd think it a bit odd, but we've been considering this for some time --- if we push for religious liberty, it's not just "Christian".

                          I just find it entertaining to see them behave just like Jesus told them not to behave, praying in order to be seen. Performative prayer seems to be more and more common in Western Christianity. May be linked to Western Christianity's persecution complex in some way.
                          I see it as an expression of religious liberty - kinda of a "freedom of navigation" exercise.

                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                            ....But instead he chose to go to the literal middle of the feeld and kneel for his performative prayer (and as people joined him, began to give religiou-tinged speeches, IIRC)....
                            Now, if he had gone up into the broadcast booth and grabbed a microphone, that'd be more like what Jesus was blasting.

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                              So you can read his mind? You know that his motivation was to bring honor to himself and not to God?
                              We don't need to read his mind to see his actions, Hypatia.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                I'd think it a bit odd, but we've been considering this for some time --- if we push for religious liberty, it's not just "Christian".
                                That's good to hear. Somehow I doubt a good proportion of other Christians would be okay with it, though. I've seen a number of uproars over places that open public meetings/sessions with prayer who allow non-Christians to lead said prayer.

                                I see it as an expression of religious liberty - kinda of a "freedom of navigation" exercise.
                                It's performative, at the end of it.

                                Comment

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