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Any thoughts on Justice Thomas' opinion?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    What do you think about it H_A?
    Inigo.gif
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      Not very easily at all.

      The founders also specified a process by which the Constitution may be amended, and since its ratification, the Constitution has been amended 27 times. In order to prevent arbitrary changes, the process for making amendments is quite onerous. An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification. In modern times, amendments have traditionally specified a time frame in which this must be accomplished, usually a period of several years. Additionally, the Constitution specifies that no amendment can deny a State equal representation in the Senate without that State’s consent.
      And as I noted in a different thread awhile back, one cannot simply change an amendment as the 21st Amendment makes clear.

      We couldn't amend the 18th Amendment (Prohibition) so an entirely new and different one, the 21st, was passed repealing it.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

        It also follows then that those amendments can likewise be changed. Am I right?
        Through the correct process, yes. We saw that with the 21st amendment, which repealed the 18th.
        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          Given Thomas' opinion does the possibility of rulings on contraception and SSM raise any concerns? I can imagine the latter probably would not among many here but does that open the way to everything now to be challenged?

          Could possible laws under consideration is some states now criminalise IUDs and emergency contraception? Could a potential case brought to the SCOTUS possibly lead to overturning inter-racial marriages? [as a jocular aside that would certainly place Justice Thomas in an invidious position]!

          What did the ruling intend by the remark:

          "The Constitution does not confer a right to abortion;"? Is that a reference to the wording contained in the original document drawn up in the eighteenth century? Or a reference to the Constitution as it now exists with all its later amendments?


          ​​​​​​​The following article deals with Thomas' opinion.


          https://www.texastribune.org/2022/06...-sex-marriage/

          Tucked inside the U.S. Supreme Court’s ruling Friday that overturned the long-held constitutional protection for abortion was a concurring opinion from conservative Justice Clarence Thomas. In it, he pushed the court to revisit cases that have already been decided related to contraception and same-sex marriage.

          Fueling already heightened anxieties from women and LGBTQ groups that the end of Roe could be the tip of the iceberg, Thomas wrote that “in future cases, we should reconsider all of this Court’s substantive due process precedents.”

          “Because any substantive due process decision is ‘demonstrably erroneous,’ we have a duty to ‘correct the error’ established in those precedents,” Thomas wrote.

          Experts told The Texas Tribune that Thomas’ opinion signals an openness from the court to reconsidering other settled legal precedents related to rights the court has ruled are protected by the constitution.

          “The Supreme Court’s decision has brought us into a new era where they are taking away rights instead of giving them,” said Rocio Fierro-Pérez, political coordinator for the Texas Freedom Network, which advocates for individual liberties. “Abortion access is one of several fundamental rights that’s under attack including our right to vote, racial justice, LGBTQ rights, and they’re all intertwined with our right to liberty in which Roe v. Wade was grounded.”

          Emily Berman, associate professor of law at the University of Houston Law Center, said Thomas’ opinion sends a strong message.

          “He’s saying ‘This opinion doesn’t do it because people haven’t asked us to, but I think people should ask us and we should reconsider this entire area of law,’” Berman said.

          Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote Friday’s majority opinion that struck down the landmark abortion case Roe v. Wade, tried to assuage fears that the court’s ruling could be used to do away with rights the court has previously said are protected by the constitution.

          “We have stated unequivocally that ‘Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion,’” Alito wrote.

          But Justices Stephen Breyer, Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor expressed concern in their dissenting opinion, saying “no one should be confident that this majority is done with its work.” The right to an abortion recognized in Roe v. Wade in 1973 and Casey v. Planned Parenthood in 1992, did not stand alone, but were linked to decades of other “settled freedoms involving bodily integrity, familial relationships, and procreation.”

          The right to an abortion, they said, arose from the right to access contraception, which was established in Griswold v. Connecticut in 1965. The decisions in the abortion cases opened the door for the court to protect the right to same sex sexual intimacy and same sex marriage in Lawrence v. Texas in 2003 and Obergefell v. Hodges in 2015.

          “They are all part of the same constitutional fabric, protecting autonomous decision making over the most personal of life decisions,” Breyer, Sotomayor and Kagan wrote in their dissent.

          “The majority (or to be more accurate, most of it) is eager to tell us today that nothing it does ‘cast[s] doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion,’” they added. “But how could that be? The lone rationale for what the majority does today is that the right to elect an abortion is not ‘deeply rooted in history’: Not until Roe, the majority argues, did people think abortion fell within the Constitution’s guarantee of liberty. The same could be said, though, of most of the rights the majority claims it is not tampering with.”

          Berman said advocates are right to be concerned about the ruling’s impact.

          “Despite the majority’s insistence that abortion is different, the legal argument that they make with respect to why Roe is wrong would apply equally to many other cases involving unenumerated rights such as gay marriage,” Berman said.

          “There’s definite cause for concern that this idea will be extended to apply to other areas and I think gay marriage and contraception are the two most likely victims because those are the ones that don’t have a long history of having been acknowledged as a fundamental right,” she added.

          That encouragement to challenge established law also has birth control advocates concerned.

          With abortion soon outlawed in more than half the states, access to birth control could also be threatened, said Elizabeth Ruzzo, the founder of Adyn, a company that’s designed a test to prevent birth control side effects.

          In May, Louisiana lawmakers considered a bill that would have classified abortion as homicide, which experts said could have criminalized the use of IUDs and emergency contraception. The bill ultimately failed, but Ruzzo fears that now, other states will try to bar contraception through strict abortion laws, even though contraceptives are also used to treat disorders in reproductive organs and manage premenstrual syndrome in teen girls.

          “Unfortunately, birth control is at the forefront right now,” Ruzzo said. “[The ruling] really just has a painful amount of rippling implications for progress that we’ve made toward these really basic freedoms that people have come to expect in their daily lives.”

          Victoria Kirby York, deputy executive director at the National Black Justice Coalition, which advocates for LGBTQ civil rights, said the court’s ruling could also open the door to rolling back rights like interracial marriage, marriage equality and other civil rights.

          “Constitutional rights should not be played with or taken away,” she said. “Constitutional rights should only be expanded to ensure everyone has access to the same rights.”

          Kirby York said the court’s opinion went against how the court had construed the 14th amendment and equal protection under the law in the past, and has now opened the door for other unenumerated rights to be challenged.

          “We will have to have individual cases on these things come before the court,” she said.
          I've been telling liberals I know for decades not to rest on their laurels if they want something like gay marriage or abortion to be an actual right. If they actually care about it, go put in the effort and get the will of the people behind you to codify it as a constitutional amendment. Otherwise they're just asking for disappointment. And lo and behold, look what happened. Wouldn't be surprised if it happens with those other things too.
          "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
          - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

            Also, we shouldn't act like the Supreme Court never changes precedent. After all Brown vs Board of Education changed the precedence of Plessy vs Ferguson.
            Yep: notably an even longer-held precedent than even Roe was.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

              After I see that you actually understand what it is you're discussing.
              I have NO concerns with what Justice Thomas said.
              See, she wants you to argue against the article so she can pull her whole "well I didn't say that, ask them", instead of arguing against her, herself. That's why she's so eager to try to push you into arguing against the article.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                I asked you to give your opinion on an article from a news outlet.
                Translation: "please stop arguing with me, please pretty please argue with my article so I can do my 'well I didn't say that, they did, ask them' fallacy, because I have no clue what I'm actually talking about."
                "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  I did.
                  From that remark I deduce you consider the various comments made in the article to have no actual significance.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    From that remark I deduce you consider the various comments made in the article to have no actual significance.
                    OK.
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      What do you think about it H_A?
                      You know my position on abortion.

                      As to whether there will be some attempt by concerned parties to remove the right to to same sex sexual intimacy and same sex marriage, we shall have to wait and see.
                      "It ain't necessarily so
                      The things that you're liable
                      To read in the Bible
                      It ain't necessarily so
                      ."

                      Sportin' Life
                      Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        You know my position on abortion.

                        As to whether there will be some attempt by concerned parties to remove the right to to same sex sexual intimacy and same sex marriage, we shall have to wait and see.
                        With regards to the supreme court, there would have to be a case presented to them that has worked its way up to them, and those who attempt to bring such a case have to have standing before the court.

                        Can you envision such a challenge?
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          You know my position on abortion.

                          As to whether there will be some attempt by concerned parties to remove the right to to same sex sexual intimacy and same sex marriage, we shall have to wait and see.
                          And, I'll add --- this appears to be akin to the "keep your courts out of my bedroom" while the same sex crowd parades their "bedroom" through the public streets.
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            With regards to the supreme court, there would have to be a case presented to them that has worked its way up to them, and those who attempt to bring such a case have to have standing before the court.

                            Can you envision such a challenge?
                            Only time will tell.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              And, I'll add --- this appears to be akin to the "keep your courts out of my bedroom" while the same sex crowd parades their "bedroom" through the public streets.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                You know my position on abortion.

                                As to whether there will be some attempt by concerned parties to remove the right to to same sex sexual intimacy and same sex marriage, we shall have to wait and see.
                                SSM, and honestly, marriage in general, is not an enunciated right of the Federal Government, so stretching it to be included in the due process clause was shifty. Not as bad as RvW inventing a "right to privacy", mind you, but bad precedent nonetheless.
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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