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Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, leaves issue up to states

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  • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    It was possibly imprudent on his part. It doesn't even mean he's opposed to the outcome of any of them, just that he disagrees with the legal reasoning.
    In regards to what Clarence Thomas thinks of their outcomes as policy, I do not know for sure about Griswold or Obergefell, but he straight up said in his Lawrence dissent that he would've repealed the law if he were a legislator. In that dissent he did offer a quote from a dissent in Griswold which referred to the contraceptive ban as an "uncommonly silly" law (which Thomas applies to the law in Lawrence), which implies he might have a similar opinion on that case as well. But that's speculation.

    Though I think I expressed myself ambiguously--my statement of how it wouldn't matter if Griswold or Lawrence was overturned because there's no desire from legislatures to enact laws banning contraceptive usage or gay sex was in regards to the fearmongering; thus it was me saying that even if they were overturned people wouldn't have to worry. (Obergefell is another matter, but only a handful of states would actually go back to not recognizing same-sex marriage again, and I expect even those that did would be in some way more friendly to it)

    But people do still fearmonger, and it certainly doesn't help at all when Clarence Thomas singles out Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell as cases to revisit (he doesn't as explicitly call for overturning them as I thought he did upon a review, but it's clear that's what he has in mind), which are the exact same cases that people have been fearmongering about since the draft got released. Even if he was unaware of that due to not paying that much attention to the news (or to the news in which people are fearmongering), surely one of his clerks would have picked up on that and could have notified him of this. He could have easily made his point, which was about him wanting to get rid of the idea of substantial due process entirely, without calling out the exact three cases that people were most fearmongering about prior.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
      In regards to what Clarence Thomas thinks of their outcomes as policy, I do not know for sure about Griswold or Obergefell, but he straight up said in his Lawrence dissent that he would've repealed the law if he were a legislator. In that dissent he did offer a quote from a dissent in Griswold which referred to the contraceptive ban as an "uncommonly silly" law (which Thomas applies to the law in Lawrence), which implies he might have a similar opinion on that case as well. But that's speculation.

      Though I think I expressed myself ambiguously--my statement of how it wouldn't matter if Griswold or Lawrence was overturned because there's no desire from legislatures to enact laws banning contraceptive usage or gay sex was in regards to the fearmongering; thus it was me saying that even if they were overturned people wouldn't have to worry. (Obergefell is another matter, but only a handful of states would actually go back to not recognizing same-sex marriage again, and I expect even those that did would be in some way more friendly to it)

      But people do still fearmonger, and it certainly doesn't help at all when Clarence Thomas singles out Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell as cases to revisit (he doesn't as explicitly call for overturning them as I thought he did upon a review, but it's clear that's what he has in mind), which are the exact same cases that people have been fearmongering about since the draft got released. Even if he was unaware of that due to not paying that much attention to the news (or to the news in which people are fearmongering), surely one of his clerks would have picked up on that and could have notified him of this. He could have easily made his point, which was about him wanting to get rid of the idea of substantial due process entirely, without calling out the exact three cases that people were most fearmongering about prior.
      That's... weird. I don't approve of homosexual practice or gay "marriage," but I'm not sure of a secular basis for making either illegal.

      Regarding contraceptives, I'd favor proscribing any that also act as abortifacients.
      Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

      Beige Federalist.

      Nationalist Christian.

      "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

      Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

      Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

      Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

      Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

      Justice for Matthew Perna!

      Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Imagine how screwed up in the head you have to be to be angry and riot because more babies will live.
        That’s not what this ruling does. Women will always need and find ways to have abortions.

        Three justices were appointed by Satan himself in the form of Donald J Trump. SCOTUS are busy now churning out satanic decisions, this among them. The American public will rebel in righteousness.
        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
        “not all there” - you know who you are

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

          That's... weird. I don't approve of homosexual practice or gay "marriage," but I'm not sure of a secular basis for making either illegal.

          Regarding contraceptives, I'd favor proscribing any that also act as abortifacients.
          Can you clarify what you're saying is weird? I'm a little unsure what you're referring to.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
            Can you clarify what you're saying is weird? I'm a little unsure what you're referring to.
            Mainly his apparent interest in contraceptives. Apart from the abortifacient aspect, I don't know why that would interest anyone.
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Federalist.

            Nationalist Christian.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

            Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

            Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

            Justice for Matthew Perna!

            Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
              We've been LITERALLY doing that for fifty years - why do you think we bother with pregnancy centers?

              Go watch the movie Raising Isaiah. The Democrats played on the fears of American black people - and their bigotry - to prevent white people from adopting black children in the US. The result was many adopted abroad and a lot of black orphans never got a chance to have a home of their own.

              Nowadays, it's still uncommon but it does happen. So does the converse, although most commonly after a blended family.

              A guy in my church a few years back told a funny story about his youngest and her tendency to run off, especially in stores. He always found her but there would be a moment of 'how the heck do I tell the clerks that she's white?'
              My point is about the potential increase in unwanted babies. If the adoption services and the number of adoptive parents will provide for all those, then good. It will be success all around.

              However, how much help will those young women who may be persuaded to keep their child get in the long term? Help for the first few months is admirable. What happens later if those young women cannot get work and/or cannot get affordable childcare?

              In 2004 in her interview Sister Chittister did note that many who support pro-life are in reality pro-birth and do not want to see a rise in their taxes to pay towards social and welfare programmes.

              As to your flurry of other posts.
              1. Yes I do realise the US is one of the most powerful economies in the world, which is rather shaming given the number of homeless and near destitute people that presently exist in your country. So wealthy a nation cannot house and care for its current population.
              2. Yes I also note that abortions have fallen in recent years.
              3. Free birth control is admirable but as I understand it that came about as a result of Obama's legislation on healthcare that incensed many on the Right and which some [from what I read] would like to remove. I understand that Senator Graham has indicated that if the Republicans regain the Senate they will seek to cut social and health care.
              4. As to your remark about the adoption services [and those wanting to adopt] if that proves to be correct, again, good, Everything will have worked beautifully without adding to social problems or costing the US taxpayer an extra dime.
              5. As to free birth control - see my above remark. Will it remain so if cuts are made? Will some states still provide free universal birth control? Or will some start charging. Or possibly reducing availability to certain age groups?
              6. As to your question as to why I should not adopt one of these future unwanted babies. I do not live in the USA. However, you corrected your comment.
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                I SOOOO hope so - that puts the whole state border limitation straight into the firing line! The instant they do anywhere near an actual red state they will get sued into the stone age.
                You also have a number of companies falling over themselves announcing that they'll provide transportation out of state so employees can get an abortion. I'm sure that will soon be expanded to include immediate family.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                  Why don't you take one?


                  We get more people illegally crossing the borders each year. Literally.

                  Also, it turns out that artificially reducing the size of a generation has some nasty consequences when your country ends up with more old people than young. The US will have to actively work to encourage families just to get back up to replacement levels. And we're in better shape than most - I believe that includes Germany.*



                  *Apologies if I recalled incorrectly - I recall you being German. I tend to notice just because I spent three years learning German and never got to really use it.
                  I have a friend from Poland who says that his sister works as an assisted care nurse in Italy who says she went there because the ratio of elderly people to young is so high.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                    And harder to keep it. The country is swinging to the right and it is showing in most states.
                    Just needed one year of seeing the consequences of the policies that the left have been demanding, along with a cognitively challenged liberal president, to force a rapid pendulum swing.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      The talking point that conservatives want to go after Loving v. Virginia next is one of the most disingenuous things ever. For one, there's an obvious reason Clarence Thomas didn't list it among the decisions he wanted to go after next. Also, there's simply not a political appetite for it. No state is going to argue it. The number of people who want to make interracial marriage illegal isn't zero (my late grandmother was staunchly opposed to it), but it's negligible.
                      I think Thomas' list wasn't a "hit list" but serves as more of a warning. Simply relying on a SCOTUS decision and not codifying something into law is a bad mistake.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                        Sounds like pro-abortion protestors tried to storm the Arizona Senate Building. June 24th Insurrection?

                        https://twitter.com/brahmresnik/stat...42633977622528

                        Video of the mob trying to break through the glass doors:
                        https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status...52258127101952
                        Pfft. This is the left we're talking about. They stormed the U.S. Capitol twice just in 2018 in the same way it was J6. IOW, when they do it then by definition it is "Mostly peaceful protests"

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by firstfloor View Post

                          That’s not what this ruling does. Women will always need and find ways to have abortions.

                          Three justices were appointed by Satan himself in the form of Donald J Trump. SCOTUS are busy now churning out satanic decisions, this among them. The American public will rebel in righteousness.



                          Nice to see you back to your usual trolling ways ff.

                          Hope you've been well.
                          Last edited by rogue06; 06-25-2022, 06:14 AM.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            I think President Trump deserves some credit for this, because without his Supreme Court nominations, this would never have happened.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment



                            • I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post

                                The country is swinging to the right and it is showing in most states.
                                Do you consider that to be an overly positive move in the long term?
                                "It ain't necessarily so
                                The things that you're liable
                                To read in the Bible
                                It ain't necessarily so
                                ."

                                Sportin' Life
                                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                                Comment

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