Are elephants people?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

What a stupid question,

Not based on what you wrote which applies to religion per se .

That tells us nothing about whether that religion is true or not.

And?

You cannot therefore make over-generalised comments like this below because the history [and indeed the situation within present Western culture] are all just a teensy weensy bit more complicated:

his moral beliefs are the result of a happy accident (time and place of birth).

So?

What is deemed moral is not identically the same in every respect among all human cultures.

Again, so?

Morality [as we now understand it in the West] has never been a constant for all societies throughout human history.

[tabibito]

Well moral reflection would be grounded in ones social conditioning.

It could be said that social conditioning is how conscience gets seared (or one of the ways, at least).

[seer]

Not based on what you wrote which applies to religion per se .

So when you were speaking of religion in many parts of the US you were speaking of Islam?

[seer]

It could be said that social conditioning is how conscience gets seared (or one of the ways, at least).

Sure that is part of it...

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So when you were speaking of religion in many parts of the US you were speaking of Islam?

There are various different religions within the USA; as this Pew article shows.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion...ndscape-study/


Explore religious groups in the U.S. by tradition, family and denomination

Christian70.6%
Evangelical Protestant25.4%
Mainline Protestant14.7%
Historically Black Protestant6.5%
Catholic20.8%
Mormon1.6%
Orthodox Christian0.5%
Jehovah's Witness0.8%
Other Christian0.4%
Non-Christian Faiths5.9%
Jewish1.9%
Muslim0.9%
Buddhist0.7%
Hindu0.7%
Other World Religions0.3%
Other Faiths1.5%
Unaffiliated (religious "nones")22.8%
Atheist3.1%
Agnostic4.0%
Nothing in particular15.8%
Don't know0.6%

[seer]

There are various different religions within the USA; as this Pew article shows.

So the vast, vast, majority are Christian. But the point is, yes I believe my religion is the only true one, that is why I'm a Christian...If I didn't believe that I would not be a follower of Christ...

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

So the vast, vast, majority are Christian. But the point is, yes I believe my religion is the only true one, that is why I'm a Christian...If I didn't believe that I would not be a follower of Christ...

That does not alter what you originally wrote which referred to religion per se:

That tells us nothing about whether that religion is true or not.

[seer]

That does not alter what you originally wrote which referred to religion per se:

That tells us nothing about whether that religion is true or not.

Right, and?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Right, and?

If, as i suggested religion, particularly in parts of the USA, is nothing more than a "matter of social conditioning" and if according to you that comment tells us "nothing about whether that religion is true or not" on what grounds should any religion be accepted as "true"?

If it is all a matter of social conditioning then no religion has any more validity in developing or producing a "sense of moral obligation than do the views of Stoic or any one else who is not religious.

In other words to have a "sense of moral obligation" does not require a belief in any religion.

[seer]

If, as i suggested religion, particularly in parts of the USA, is nothing more than a "matter of social conditioning" and if according to you that comment tells us "nothing about whether that religion is true or not" on what grounds should any religion be accepted as "true"?

Every faith has it reasons, and no, as a Christian my beliefs are not merely the result of cultural conditioning since we believe that the law of God is universal and that God will find His elect, no matter which country or era he is raised in.

If it is all a matter of social conditioning then no religion has any more validity in developing or producing a "sense of moral obligation than do the views of Stoic or any one else who is not religious.

The real difference is that the Law of God is objective to humankind, certain, and morally binding on all men.

In other words to have a "sense of moral obligation" does not require a belief in any religion.

That is true to a degree since all men are created in the image of God, have the law of God written on their hearts, so we have an intuitive, God generated, moral sense (when we are not ignoring our conscience for selfish ends).

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Every faith has it reasons, and no, as a Christian my beliefs are not merely the result of cultural conditioning since we believe that the law of God is universal and that God will find His elect, no matter which country or era he is raised in.

Of course you have been culturally conditioned with your religious beliefs. How else do you think you acquired them? By osmosis?

The real difference is that the Law of God is objective to humankind, certain, and morally binding on all men.

Hmm...depending upon which god of the bible you are referencing you might find that, by our present standards, there are rather some questionable morals.

That is true to a degree since all men are created in the image of God, have the law of God written on their hearts, so we have an intuitive, God generated, moral sense (when we are not ignoring our conscience for selfish ends).

That is your own preconceived religious belief. It has no factual basis.

[Mountain Man]

Unless moral obligation itself is a matter of opinion.


You are trying to mix your worldview with mine, and criticize the resultant mess as if it's my worldview.

This is exceedingly common when theists attempt to critique atheism.

If it's merely an opinion, then you concede the debate.

And I'm not the one mixing worldviews. You keep trying to figure out ways to make moral obligation a part of atheism despite the fact that there is no logical way to connect "atheism is true" to "therefore, moral obligation exists". You try to make an end run around this problem by claiming that it's just an opinion, but that is effectively no different than stating that it doesn't really exist since everybody can have a different opinion, and even your own opinion on the matter can change. And yet it seems that you still can't shake the intuitive sense that moral obligation must exist as an objective truth despite the fact that it can't exist if atheism is true. I think on this basis alone, you have a good reason to doubt the truth of atheism.

[seer]

Of course you have been culturally conditioned with your religious beliefs. How else do you think you acquired them? By osmosis?

My point is that no man is merely at the mercy of culture since God is sovereign - that God can cause His elect to come to faith no matter what culture he is raised in.

Hmm...depending upon which god of the bible you are referencing you might find that, by our present standards, there are rather some questionable morals.

There is only one God of the Bible...

That is your own preconceived religious belief. It has no factual basis.

What do you mean by factual?

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

My point is that no man is merely at the mercy of culture since God is sovereign - that God can cause His elect to come to faith no matter what culture he is raised in.

Which leads me to wonder why there is not one universal religion.

There is only one God of the Bible...

In the Bible there are several different concepts of deity.

What do you mean by factual?

Clearly we do not have "an intuitive, God generated, moral sense ". Just watch two fifteen month old babies fighting over a toy.

Nor as far as I am aware has anyone conducted an interview with the Supreme Being.

[seer]

Which leads me to wonder why there is not one universal religion.

Because men, in their sinfulness, can and do reject the truth.

In the Bible there are several different concepts of deity.

Nope...

Clearly we do not have "an intuitive, God generated, moral sense ". Just watch two fifteen month old babies fighting over a toy.

Right, and babies share. I have three young grandchildren. So you have both behaviors.

Nor as far as I am aware has anyone conducted an interview with the Supreme Being.

Read the teachings of Christ, the Son of God. Try praying in true humility and hope...