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Are elephants people?

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  • Are elephants people?

    We can't define what a woman is, and now some believe that elephants are persons. And two judges actually went along with that...


    New York’s top court has ruled that Happy, an elephant residing at the Bronx Zoo since the 1970s, cannot legally be considered a person in a closely watched case that tested the boundaries of applying human rights to animals.

    The case brought by an animal rights group argued Happy should be released from the zoo. The Nonhuman Rights Project argued that Happy is an autonomous, cognitively complex elephant worthy of the right reserved in law for “a person”.

    The state court of appeals ruled on Tuesday 5-2, with a decision written by Chief Judge Janet DiFiore echoing that point. “While no one disputes that elephants are intelligent beings deserving of proper care and compassion”, a writ of habeas corpus was intended to protect the liberty of human beings and did not apply to a nonhuman animal like Happy, said DiFiore.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...20to%20animals.
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Originally posted by seer View Post
    We can't define what a woman is, and now some believe that elephants are persons. And two judges actually went along with that...

    [/COLOR]
    Sounds like most of the arguments against are quite similar to those in favor of being allowed to abort humans... "but they're not a person"
    Last edited by Gondwanaland; 06-15-2022, 12:10 PM.
    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

      Sounds like most of the arguments against are quite similar to those in favor of being allowed to abort humans... "but they're not a person"
      Yes. To the extent that elephants are granted rights, it's because a lot of human beings care a lot about them. Same as with fetuses.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        Yes. To the extent that elephants are granted rights, it's because a lot of human beings care a lot about them. Same as with fetuses.
        But they are not persons. And heck I don't think they should be in a zoo or circus in the first place. If you want to see an elephant go to Africa...
        Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post

          But they are not persons. And heck I don't think they should be in a zoo or circus in the first place. If you want to see an elephant go to Africa...
          Elephants are mostly domesticated in Asia. I don't see any issue of them being in a zoo. They'd probably appreciate not being a beast of burden in there, unlike back in their homeland.
          "You should just assume going forward that if I am ever wrong it is a typo" - Backup
          "
          Reality simply does not change based upon consensus or desire." - rogue

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

            Sounds like most of the arguments against are quite similar to those in favor of being allowed to abort humans... "but they're not a person"
            The rules of the left are insane.
            ​​​
            If we "declare" Biden voters cockroaches we could call Orkin and exterminate.

            ​​​​​

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Ronson View Post

              Elephants are mostly domesticated in Asia. I don't see any issue of them being in a zoo. They'd probably appreciate not being a beast of burden in there, unlike back in their homeland.
              When I was a kid my mother took me to a Circus, somehow we got to walk out back where all the animals were - those poor elephants were just swaying back and forth in the hot sun with one leg chained to the ground. I felt so bad for them. It never left me...
              Last edited by seer; 06-15-2022, 03:13 PM.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post

                When I was a kid my mother took me to a Circus, somehow we got to walk out back where all the animals were - those poor elephants were just swaying back and forth in the hot sun with one leg chained to the ground. I felt so bad for them. It never left me...
                Yeah, that sux. There's no excuse for cruelty.
                "You should just assume going forward that if I am ever wrong it is a typo" - Backup
                "
                Reality simply does not change based upon consensus or desire." - rogue

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                  Elephants are mostly domesticated in Asia. I don't see any issue of them being in a zoo. They'd probably appreciate not being a beast of burden in there, unlike back in their homeland.
                  Happy spends most of every day in a cage about twice her length. When outside she gets a portion of a 1.25 acre piece of land to walk on.

                  She spent much of her early life (caught in the wild as a baby) at a 'safari' in the US and then the zoo as a beast of burden.

                  I don't really think it's much better.

                  She should be able to live the rest her life on a sanctuary with plentiful land and no cages.
                  "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                  - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    She should be able to live the rest her life on a sanctuary with plentiful land and no cages.


                    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                      Yes. To the extent that elephants are granted rights, it's because a lot of human beings care a lot about them. Same as with fetuses.
                      Same as with born humans.
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                        Happy spends most of every day in a cage about twice her length. When outside she gets a portion of a 1.25 acre piece of land to walk on.

                        She spent much of her early life (caught in the wild as a baby) at a 'safari' in the US and then the zoo as a beast of burden.

                        I don't really think it's much better.

                        She should be able to live the rest her life on a sanctuary with plentiful land and no cages.
                        Years ago, the Atlanta Zoo was a tragedy and they kept a large male gorilla, Willie B., in a small cage with a tire swing and later a TV set.


                        4f7aaa65-b130-41a3-9da2-561b7e10fc1e.jpg

                        After nearly 30 years, the zoo went through a major overhaul and cleaned up their act. Willie got a large open area where some female gorillas were also moved. He was finally allowed to be a real gorilla.

                        Wikipedia, actually has an excellent short entry on Wiilie B.

                        I knew a couple of people who worked at the zoo during the clean up and after, and they were rightfully proud of the change they had accomplished, but that was something like 30 years ago and I don't know the state of the place today.



                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Years ago, the Atlanta Zoo was a tragedy and they kept a large male gorilla, Willie B., in a small cage with a tire swing and later a TV set.
                          Kind of reminds me of my life...
                          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Years ago, the Atlanta Zoo was a tragedy and they kept a large male gorilla, Willie B., in a small cage with a tire swing and later a TV set.


                            4f7aaa65-b130-41a3-9da2-561b7e10fc1e.jpg

                            After nearly 30 years, the zoo went through a major overhaul and cleaned up their act. Willie got a large open area where some female gorillas were also moved. He was finally allowed to be a real gorilla.

                            Wikipedia, actually has an excellent short entry on Wiilie B.

                            I knew a couple of people who worked at the zoo during the clean up and after, and they were rightfully proud of the change they had accomplished, but that was something like 30 years ago and I don't know the state of the place today.

                            Sadly this sort of thing is the reality in most Zoos. And especially in places like Sea World (which is a truly monstrous enterprise).
                            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seer View Post

                              Kind of reminds me of my life...
                              'Cept you got a recliner rather than a tire swing?

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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