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An interesting Australian election

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  • {Tim}
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    This seems a strange analysis. The liberals lost several seats to the teal independent candidates, whose claim was that the liberals had drifted too far right and failed to address climate change sufficiently. Given the electorates tended to vote for teal over liberals, presumably the people agreed with that.

    If, as you claim, the liberals went left and did too much climate-related action, who did the voting bloc who thought this vote for in the election? I don't recall seeing any hard-right party picking up a huge vote share, but perhaps I missed it???
    There isn't really a party for those who want old-school Liberals or aren't on board with the climate change stuff. Some minor parties... One Nation picked up a bit of the vote, others too, but not enough in any one place to make a great deal of difference. (And I'd imagine most of the more centrist people are put off from those minors because they either haven't heard of them, or have heard they are "racist" or "far right" or whatever.) And the "teal" independents certainly picked up a bunch of votes from "sick of the liberals, don't want to vote labor" people, probably most of whom are either in favour of climate action, or don't really care one way or the other and just liked the sound of "justice and equality" and that sort of thing that the candidates were talking about. I'll be more interested to see how they do at the NEXT election, after people see what actions they take in reality vs giving campaign speeches.

    I guess the point I was trying to make is that the gap between Liberal and Labor isn't especially large any more, so they don't automatically have the "strongly conservative" vote, but they also can't automatically rely on voters in the middle either (even more so when they haven't got a good record to point to recently).

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by {Tim} View Post
    IMO, part of the problem was the Liberals drifting left and embracing "climate" policies over the economy
    This seems a strange analysis. The liberals lost several seats to the teal independent candidates, whose claim was that the liberals had drifted too far right and failed to address climate change sufficiently. Given the electorates tended to vote for teal over liberals, presumably the people agreed with that.

    If, as you claim, the liberals went left and did too much climate-related action, who did the voting bloc who thought this vote for in the election? I don't recall seeing any hard-right party picking up a huge vote share, but perhaps I missed it???

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by {Tim} View Post
    IMO, part of the problem was the Liberals drifting left and embracing "climate" policies over the economy, as well as refusing to take a stand regarding vaccine mandates and lockdowns etc (they just kept saying "well it's up to the states, don't blame us"). So they turned off a chunk of the groups who would normally vote for them, but at the same time fail to really pick up the groups in favour of climate action etc - because if the Libs are trying to be "green/labor lite", well why not just vote for the real thing? Also, general distrust of government and political parties is higher than it used to be.

    PS - we've always had fires. And floods. And droughts. (And snakes. And spiders. And drop-bears.)
    Assuredly. The 2019/20 fires were numbered among the worst five on record, and a reasonable proportion were the result of arson (13 total for the season); the worst fires were in 2008. Smoke got all the way to New Zealand in 2019/20 - 80 years earlier (give or take) ash made the crossing.
    Dorothea McKellar. "My Country" (1908)
    "I love a sunburnt country ..."



    BTW - where do you live?
    Last edited by tabibito; 05-24-2022, 09:34 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • {Tim}
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    When voters were surveyed about their #1 issue, a plurality said Climate Change. That is reflected in the record number of votes for the Green and Teal candidates. Australia recently had extremely severe bushfires, as well as severe flooding. And the conservative government's minimalistic actions on the Climate Change topic were not looked on favorably. It seems fairly likely that as a result of this election the incoming Australian government will be inspired to make significant commitments addressing climate change.
    IMO, part of the problem was the Liberals drifting left and embracing "climate" policies over the economy, as well as refusing to take a stand regarding vaccine mandates and lockdowns etc (they just kept saying "well it's up to the states, don't blame us"). So they turned off a chunk of the groups who would normally vote for them, but at the same time fail to really pick up the groups in favour of climate action etc - because if the Libs are trying to be "green/labor lite", well why not just vote for the real thing? Also, general distrust of government and political parties is higher than it used to be.

    PS - we've always had fires. And floods. And droughts. (And snakes. And spiders. And drop-bears.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    And now there's this:

    Australia has an eSafety Commissioner named Julie Inman-Grant. While delivering remarks to the World Economic Forum summit in Davos, Switzerland, she outlined a new on-line era where free speech would need to be “recalibrated,” and the ability to be free from something called “on-line violence.”


    For the past several years we have noted a progressive, totalitarian, shift in speech, specifically a redefinition of the word “violence.” Speech the leftists do not like, they call violence; and violence the leftists support, they call speech. As a result, the overlay of a newly recalibrated on-line world for speech and violence would be modified accordingly.

    Australian eSafety Commissioner Tells Word Economic Forum Audience It is Time to Recalibrate Free Speech - The Last Refuge (theconservativetreehouse.com)

    This sort of thinking is hardly a suprise coming from a country that had literal concentration camps built to imprison those who refused to be "vaccine compliant".

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    If you realize that the fecal matter is about to make physical contact with the oscillating air current distribution device, there could be a tendency to let the other side take the hit allowing you to gain control with a larger majority the next election cycle. If the other side takes the blame for a large enough mess then it could be a bonus for your side for several elections.
    There is also the fact that the Republican Party, during the 50s through the 70s, made no serious effort to take control of Congress, seemingly content to act as a brake on the Democrat's policies. So there is evidence for a party not wanting to be in control.

    Leave a comment:


  • EvoUK
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    If you realize that the fecal matter is about to make physical contact with the oscillating air current distribution device, there could be a tendency to let the other side take the hit allowing you to gain control with a larger majority the next election cycle. If the other side takes the blame for a large enough mess then it could be a bonus for your side for several elections.
    I've often wondered if this was the case across several countries, actually. For example, in the UK, our ruling party is currently under fire for so much sleaze, corruption and outright lying - but at the same time, were Labour to replace the Tories in the next election (estimated 2024), I have no idea how they would begin to fix everything the Tories have broken. It ranges from 12+ years of ideological austerity caused cuts across whole swathes of the public sector, the self-inflicted wound of Brexit, cost of living, etc etc.

    Currently the Tories have an 80 seat majority (which doesn't reflect their vote share - but that's FPTP for you), and even with a landslide, it is highly unlikely for Labour to get anything close to this majority, unless they enter into some form of power-sharing agreement. With a wafer-thin majority it makes it even harder to fix things, as the Dems are finding in the US at the moment.

    Are the Tories self-sabotaging to stay out for an election cycle, blame all the issues they caused on Labour then coming back in again at the next election? I can't say - the only thing they're good at is maintaining power at all costs, and they can't use government to enrich themselves, their friends and their donors if they're out of power. Perhaps it is the same in Oz at the moment?

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    I think you underestimate the typical desire for power among politicians. I would be absolutely shocked if there has ever been an election anywhere in which "neither party really wants to take the reins".
    If you realize that the fecal matter is about to make physical contact with the oscillating air current distribution device, there could be a tendency to let the other side take the hit allowing you to gain control with a larger majority the next election cycle. If the other side takes the blame for a large enough mess then it could be a bonus for your side for several elections.

    Leave a comment:


  • tabibito
    replied
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    I think you underestimate the typical desire for power among politicians. I would be absolutely shocked if there has ever been an election anywhere in which "neither party really wants to take the reins".
    Could be you are right, but I have a suspicious nature when it comes to politicians. The last time I remember a campaign this bad was just before a crunch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
    Your hallucinations are incredible.
    Not nearly as incredible as your ignorance of US politics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    A lacklustre election usually means that neither party really wants to take the reins. Much easier to sit back and blame the other side for all the tough decisions that need to be made.
    I think you underestimate the typical desire for power among politicians. I would be absolutely shocked if there has ever been an election anywhere in which "neither party really wants to take the reins".

    Leave a comment:


  • Starlight
    replied
    Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    A common lament among Democrats was that Trump was the first president in decades to actually keep his campaign promises.
    Your hallucinations are incredible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Alien
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Did you ever see him in the movie Being There? An absolutely brilliant political satire.
    Yes. "There will be growth in the Spring".

    Brilliant indeed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill the Cat
    replied
    I have some non-TWeb friends in Oz and they both said that they voted for 3rd party because of the lockdowns in the last 2 years. That may have also been a factor for many people

    Leave a comment:


  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Alien View Post

    So long ago and still so funny ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxBtGuu9BVE
    Did you ever see him in the movie Being There? An absolutely brilliant political satire.

    Leave a comment:

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