Southern Baptist leaders covered up sex abuse, kept secret database, report says

[Cow Poke]

Regretfully, SBC brought this on themselves by attempting to cover it up. No one seems to have learned from Watergate, that covering-up bad behavior makes the crime worse and punishment worse when it comes out.

You wou;d think that someone would have known Luke 12:3 and the many verses similar to it.

Yeah, not defending the SBC's actions in any way, shape or form.

[Christianbookworm]

Regretfully, SBC brought this on themselves by attempting to cover it up. No one seems to have learned from Watergate, that covering-up bad behavior makes the crime worse and punishment worse when it comes out.

You wou;d think that someone would have known Luke 12:3 and the many verses similar to it.

Think I referenced that verse earlier in this thread. Again, how can Christians(unless the perps aren't and they'd still be foolish) think they can get away with anything evil? God knows and is more than capable of ensuring that the wrongdoing is exposed with no one knowing exactly what He did. I wouldn't even shoplift a candy bar. One, stealing is wrong and two, I wouldn't get away with it. Is it the criminals think they won't get caught syndrome? And I thought villians in superhero stories with the hero way more powerful than them were dumb. At least those fictional bad guys aren't up against the omnipotent Creator of everything. Just because negative consequences aren't immediate doesn't mean they won't eventually happen. I'm just not sure of the competence of the Federal government either. I kinda want Jesus to give everyone a lecture on their bad choices.

[KingsGambit]

Well, it'd Ben Shapiro's website so that's not completely surprising that he'd try to insinuate that. Not saying it can't be, but it seems like a reasonable thing to investigate.

There already had been an investigation resulting in the denomination cleaning house, so I don't see the burning need for the feds to rehash it again. (Though it is disturbing how many within the SBC didn't seem to want that initial investigation.)

[Christianbookworm]

The feds want to seem like they are doing something??? How about they also deal with eveil cops, teachers, and other authority figures? And make sure they don't slso have a giant foreign object on their eye too? Can we get rid of all the wolves in sheep's clothing? Can they please repent and stop hurting people and trust in Jesus?

[Gondwanaland]

There already had been an investigation resulting in the denomination cleaning house, so I don't see the burning need for the feds to rehash it again. (Though it is disturbing how many within the SBC didn't seem to want that initial investigation.)

A DOJ investigation?

[Christianbookworm]

Isn't covering up crimes illegal?

[Thoughtful Monk]

Yeah, not defending the SBC's actions in any way, shape or form.

I didn't mean to imply that you were defending the SBC. I haven't seen anyone on this thread defend their actions.

[Cow Poke]

SBC leaders respond to DOJ investigation

NASHVILLE (BP) – The Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee has been informed that the United States Department of Justice has initiated an investigation into the SBC that will include “multiple SBC entities,” according to an Aug. 12 statement from all SBC entity leaders and SBC President Bart Barber.

“Individually and collectively, each SBC entity is resolved to fully and completely cooperate with the investigation,” the statement said.

The announcement comes two months after messengers to the SBC Annual Meeting in Anaheim passed a resolution On Lament and Repentance for Sexual Abuse. Southern Baptists also voted overwhelmingly to adopt a report that approved recommendations toward addressing and preventing sexual abuse in the Convention.

The SBC spent nearly $2 million on an independent investigation conducted by Guidepost Solutions, which submitted its report in May. Send Relief, the compassion ministry of the SBC, has committed $4 million for the implementation of messenger-approved actions and to support survivors of sexual abuse.

Requests for comment from Guidepost Solutions and the DOJ were not returned by the time of publication. This story will be updated to include information as it becomes available.

In the statement, SBC leaders say they will comply with the DOJ’s request.

“Our commitment to cooperate with the Department of Justice is born from our demonstrated commitment to transparently address the scourge of sexual abuse,” the leaders said, adding that their willingness to cooperate should send the message that they are taking sexual abuse seriously.

“While we continue to grieve and lament past mistakes related to sexual abuse, current leaders across the SBC have demonstrated a firm conviction to address those issues of the past and are implementing measures to ensure they are never repeated in the future,” the statement said. “The fact that the SBC Executive Committee recently completed a fully transparent investigation is evidence of this commitment.”

They asked for prayer and for God’s wisdom as they proceed.

“While so many things in the world are uncertain, we can be certain that we serve a mighty God. Nothing, including this investigation, takes Him by surprise. We take comfort in that and humbly ask you be in prayer in the days and weeks ahead. Specifically, we ask God to grant wisdom and discernment to each person dealing with the investigation,” they wrote.

[rogue06]

SBC leaders respond to DOJ investigation

NASHVILLE (BP) – The Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee has been informed that the United States Department of Justice has initiated an investigation into the SBC that will include “multiple SBC entities,” according to an Aug. 12 statement from all SBC entity leaders and SBC President Bart Barber.

“Individually and collectively, each SBC entity is resolved to fully and completely cooperate with the investigation,” the statement said.

The announcement comes two months after messengers to the SBC Annual Meeting in Anaheim passed a resolution On Lament and Repentance for Sexual Abuse. Southern Baptists also voted overwhelmingly to adopt a report that approved recommendations toward addressing and preventing sexual abuse in the Convention.

The SBC spent nearly $2 million on an independent investigation conducted by Guidepost Solutions, which submitted its report in May. Send Relief, the compassion ministry of the SBC, has committed $4 million for the implementation of messenger-approved actions and to support survivors of sexual abuse.

Requests for comment from Guidepost Solutions and the DOJ were not returned by the time of publication. This story will be updated to include information as it becomes available.

In the statement, SBC leaders say they will comply with the DOJ’s request.

“Our commitment to cooperate with the Department of Justice is born from our demonstrated commitment to transparently address the scourge of sexual abuse,” the leaders said, adding that their willingness to cooperate should send the message that they are taking sexual abuse seriously.

“While we continue to grieve and lament past mistakes related to sexual abuse, current leaders across the SBC have demonstrated a firm conviction to address those issues of the past and are implementing measures to ensure they are never repeated in the future,” the statement said. “The fact that the SBC Executive Committee recently completed a fully transparent investigation is evidence of this commitment.”

They asked for prayer and for God’s wisdom as they proceed.

“While so many things in the world are uncertain, we can be certain that we serve a mighty God. Nothing, including this investigation, takes Him by surprise. We take comfort in that and humbly ask you be in prayer in the days and weeks ahead. Specifically, we ask God to grant wisdom and discernment to each person dealing with the investigation,” they wrote.

Beat me to it. smiley fist shake.gif

[Cow Poke]

I didn't mean to imply that you were defending the SBC. I haven't seen anyone on this thread defend their actions.

[Cow Poke]

...

It's being argued that "the Office of Pastor" isn't necessarily referring to support roles under the pastor.

So, I'm at the annual meeting of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention (The STATE convention related to the SBC) and this Saddleback thing is coming up again.

(Couple of points for anybody who might be interested, everybody else can ignore. )

The SBC does not vote any churches "in" to the Convention.
Churches choose to "voluntarily cooperate" with the SBC, and, according to the SBC, those churches need to accept the Baptist Faith & Message or (long rambling legal words, but suffice it to say) "something close" to it. Similar "faith and practice".

That's actually in the SBC Constitution, and churches don't "join" the SBC - they "affiliate" with it.

The way Churches become 'members' of the SBC is by joining a local association or a State Convention - and those entities actually do consider the application and accept or reject it.

Another important point -- nobody in the SBC "monitors" local churches to make sure they are in compliance, and we don't have a board to decide who is and who is not faithfully cooperating.

The only time it becomes an issue is when something bubbles to the surface that cannot be ignored. That's what Rick Warren did by proudly proclaiming that they ordain and employ women in lead pastor roles.

There have always been Baptist Churches in the SBC with women pastors, but they were few and far between, and weren't 'raising their hands' drawing attention to themselves.

So, we're still discussing what to do with a Church like Saddleback who appears NOT to be "closely aligned" with the BF&M.... and it's coming down to a definition of what the meaning of the word "is" is. (kidding) It's coming down to "what is 'close'"? How "close" do you have to be to our beliefs to still be an affiliated church?

It's actually kind of interesting to me, and, perhaps only me.

But, sometimes I think things through better when I type them out and allow myself to be challenged.

[tabibito]

So, I'm at the annual meeting of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention (The STATE convention related to the SBC) and this Saddleback thing is coming up again.

(Couple of points for anybody who might be interested, everybody else can ignore. )

The SBC does not vote any churches "in" to the Convention.
Churches choose to "voluntarily cooperate" with the SBC, and, according to the SBC, those churches need to accept the Baptist Faith & Message or (long rambling legal words, but suffice it to say) "something close" to it. Similar "faith and practice".

That's actually in the SBC Constitution, and churches don't "join" the SBC - they "affiliate" with it.

The way Churches become 'members' of the SBC is by joining a local association or a State Convention - and those entities actually do consider the application and accept or reject it.

Another important point -- nobody in the SBC "monitors" local churches to make sure they are in compliance, and we don't have a board to decide who is and who is not faithfully cooperating.

The only time it becomes an issue is when something bubbles to the surface that cannot be ignored. That's what Rick Warren did by proudly proclaiming that they ordain and employ women in lead pastor roles.

There have always been Baptist Churches in the SBC with women pastors, but they were few and far between, and weren't 'raising their hands' drawing attention to themselves.

So, we're still discussing what to do with a Church like Saddleback who appears NOT to be "closely aligned" with the BF&M.... and it's coming down to a definition of what the meaning of the word "is" is. (kidding) It's coming down to "what is 'close'"? How "close" do you have to be to our beliefs to still be an affiliated church?

It's actually kind of interesting to me, and, perhaps only me.

But, sometimes I think things through better when I type them out and allow myself to be challenged.

So - no examination of the (Southern Baptist) BF&M to see if it aligns closely enough with scripture before making a decision?

[Cow Poke]

So - no examination of the (Southern Baptist) BF&M to see if it aligns closely enough with scripture before making a decision?

The BF&M was very carefully crafted from Scripture, complete with biblical references within, and notations without. The Church that wants to align with the SBC must simply state that they agree with the SBC's statement of faith (BF&M) or.... lemme find the actual wording from the Constitution.

It's one of those things were, apparently, nobody ever imagined that somebody would say they agreed with the BF&M "in faith and practice" but really did not.

[Cow Poke]

The BF&M was very carefully crafted from Scripture, complete with biblical references within, and notations without. The Church that wants to align with the SBC must simply state that they agree with the SBC's statement of faith (BF&M) or.... lemme find the actual wording from the Constitution.

It's one of those things were, apparently, nobody ever imagined that somebody would say they agreed with the BF&M "in faith and practice" but really did not.

Here - https://www.sbc.net/about/what-we-do.../constitution/

Article III. Composition: The Convention shall consist of messengers who are members of Baptist churches in cooperation with the Convention. The following subparagraphs describe the Convention’s current standards and method of determining the maximum number of messengers the Convention will recognize from each cooperating church to attend the Convention’s annual meeting.

1. The Convention will only deem a church to be in friendly cooperation with the Convention, and sympathetic with its purposes and work (i.e., a “cooperating” church as that term is used in the Convention’s governing documents) which:
   1. Has a faith and practice which closely identifies with the Convention’s adopted statement of faith. (By way of example, churches which act to affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior would be deemed not to be in cooperation with the Convention.)
   2. Has formally approved its intention to cooperate with the Southern Baptist Convention. (By way of example, the regular filing of the annual report requested by the Convention would be one indication of such cooperation.)
   3. Has made undesignated, financial contribution(s) through the Cooperative Program, and/or through the Convention’s Executive Committee for Convention causes, and/or to any Convention entity during the fiscal year preceding.
   4. Does not act in a manner inconsistent with the Convention’s beliefs regarding sexual abuse.
   5. Does not act to affirm, approve, or endorse discriminatory behavior on the basis of ethnicity.

A further distinction is that the SBC "Membership" consists of the "messengers" (individuals) of the churches, not the churches themselves.
Further, it is argued that the SBC "only exists" once a year for a few days during the Annual Meeting where Messengers are recognized and seated.

[Cow Poke]

And Article IV makes it clear that the SBC is not a hierarchy that tells local churches what to do or how to do church.

Article IV. Authority: While independent and sovereign in its own sphere, the Convention does not claim and will never attempt to exercise any authority over any other Baptist body, whether church, auxiliary organizations, associations, or convention.