Southern Baptist leaders covered up sex abuse, kept secret database, report says

[myth]

That age group is a whole nuther category - for reasons unknown, I was thinking the victims were older than that.

I figured so, I just wanted to make it clear how screwed up it was for teachers to be supporting this dude.

[tabibito]

I figured so, I just wanted to make it clear how screwed up it was for teachers to be supporting this dude.

I think that here any other teachers who felt support was appropriate would keep their heads down, even with the developments of the past five years. Give it a few more, perhaps not.

[Maranatha]

Today's society ... it reacts; it doesn't take any real preventative measures, and that is factoring in things like accreditation.

Most churches here require police accreditation. I haven't kept up with the legal requirements that are in force (I do the accreditation thing anyway) but I think it is now required by law for everyone working with children or other vulnerable groups, whether paid or volunteer. Ordinary accreditation is not good enough for some work - it has to go to a higher level.

I've been out of it for a while, I don't even know what accreditation is about. In my day you looked for a live volunteer. It's not as if people jumped at the opportunity to work with four year olds. It was only those with kids who typically helped out. We are probably talking different things, I am talking about children's ministry, not school.

If a church starts a school then they'll have to follow the rules of the world.

That is the critical point: the church is not supposed to have an open borders policy.

Open for what? To just walk in or to work in their ministries?

[tabibito]

I've been out of it for a while, I don't even know what accreditation is about. In my day you looked for a live volunteer. It's not as if people jumped at the opportunity to work with four year olds. It was only those with kids who typically helped out.

"Clearance" would be the alternative term. A written statement from the police that you have no convictions or pending prosecutions, or where you do have such things, what they are. Depending on the type of work, some offences will be an automatic disqualification. Minor offences, it is up to the organisation whether to make a place for the volunteer.

Open for what? To just walk in or to work in their ministries?

Acceptance of all comers into membership of the church.

[KingsGambit]

I see their point but for me there is a difference between a dispute and a criminal act.

I raised the point because as I was reading the thread, I saw too many posts trying to treat something this heinous as strictly a church matter. I'll grant I may have just misread the posts. In my opinion, the SBC report shows an issue that's too big to solve in the church.

Also, there is a lot of trauma involved. I know many pastors are well intentioned, but again this above their skill level to deal with. In a previous church, I saw a pastor try to deal with an abusive husband and it didn't go well.

I've done a little reading about the background of 1 Corinthians and I've seen the suggestion that Paul s assuming the Roman courts are corrupt (and there seem to be other references to that in Scripture). I hate to try to just get out of Scripture by just saying "well, the context was different...", but I think you're right that Paul is talking about interpersonal disputes and not criminal actions. Not to mention that if someone is being sexually abusive in a church context, there's a good chance they may be doing it outside of church as well, so it's imperative to make sure the police get to the bottom of it.

[NorrinRadd]

I've done a little reading about the background of 1 Corinthians and I've seen the suggestion that Paul s assuming the Roman courts are corrupt (and there seem to be other references to that in Scripture). I hate to try to just get out of Scripture by just saying "well, the context was different...", but I think you're right that Paul is talking about interpersonal disputes and not criminal actions. Not to mention that if someone is being sexually abusive in a church context, there's a good chance they may be doing it outside of church as well, so it's imperative to make sure the police get to the bottom of it.

Y'know, I actually think they'd be more likely to do it in a church context than "other," because they'd lean on the whole grace and forgiveness angle.

[Maranatha]

"Clearance" would be the alternative term. A written statement from the police that you have no convictions or pending prosecutions, or where you do have such things, what they are. Depending on the type of work, some offences will be an automatic disqualification. Minor offences, it is up to the organisation whether to make a place for the volunteer.

Acceptance of all comers into membership of the church.

So you want the cops to be your guardian, and only those who are vetted by cops should walk into your church.

Ok, we part ways here.

[tabibito]

So you want the cops to be your guardian, and only those who are vetted by cops should walk into your church.

Ok, we part ways here.

That is one hell of a stupid "interpretation."

[Maranatha]

That is one hell of a stupid "interpretation."

You seem one helluva stupid poster.

What specifically did I say was incorrect about what you said?

[tabibito]

You seem one helluva stupid poster.

What specifically did I say was incorrect about what you said?

Two clearly different topics.
1/ requirements for working with vulnerable groups. (which, here, involves police checks - a result of churches failing in their duty of care.)
2/ requirements for membership of a church. (which has nothing to do with police checks and everything to do with duty of care.)

And you decide to treat them as the same topic.

[Maranatha]

Two clearly different topics.

No. At least 4.

Volunteering in Church ministries.
Church Membership
Just "walking in" to a church
Church ran school

I am discussing the first.

If your church decides to run a school then just consider yourself like a public school, and vet everyone who works there.

You appear to be indicating you want a certificate from the cops to take part in all the above, so please clarify.

Your turn

[Thoughtful Monk]

I've done a little reading about the background of 1 Corinthians and I've seen the suggestion that Paul s assuming the Roman courts are corrupt (and there seem to be other references to that in Scripture). I hate to try to just get out of Scripture by just saying "well, the context was different...", but I think you're right that Paul is talking about interpersonal disputes and not criminal actions. Not to mention that if someone is being sexually abusive in a church context, there's a good chance they may be doing it outside of church as well, so it's imperative to make sure the police get to the bottom of it.

I was wondering what Roman justice was like. Did they actually pursue a robbery or were they more concerned with crimes against Rome? Find the exact context of some Scriptures takes more work than other Scriptures.

Thanks for sharing.

[Christianbookworm]

Probably only cared about "important " people.

[KingsGambit]

I was wondering what Roman justice was like. Did they actually pursue a robbery or were they more concerned with crimes against Rome? Find the exact context of some Scriptures takes more work than other Scriptures.

Thanks for sharing.

One verse I've heard cited was James 2:6 which implies that the rich used the court system to take advantage of poorer people.

[Christianbookworm]

Know how people complain about wealth privilege now? Bajillion times worse back then.... At least our culture realizes that it's not a good thing for only rich people to get justice.