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Abortion and Bodily Autonomy

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  • Abortion and Bodily Autonomy

    One thing that I'm having a hard time following in this debate is why some believe that a woman's bodily autonomy is a greater good, or more important, than a human life? What is the justification for that specific hierarchy of values?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    They don't see it as a life.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Machinist View Post
      They don't see it as a life.
      That is irrational, of course it is a life, a human life.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #4
        Originally posted by seer View Post

        That is irrational, of course it is a life, a human life.
        They don't see it that way. I believe it is a life. At what point the cells become a life may not be to clear to me right now, but I am pro-life. Pro-choice and pro-abortionist do not accept the belief that the fetus is a life.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Machinist View Post

          They don't see it that way. I believe it is a life. At what point the cells become a life may not be to clear to me right now, but I am pro-life. Pro-choice and pro-abortionist do not accept the belief that the fetus is a life.
          If it is not a human life, what is it? A plant?
          Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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          • #6
            Originally posted by seer View Post
            One thing that I'm having a hard time following in this debate is why some believe that a woman's bodily autonomy is a greater good, or more important, than a human life? What is the justification for that specific hierarchy of values?
            They’ve been fed the lie that the baby is not human until it is born, and they’ve swallowed the lie in order to continue to live their own selfish lives doing whatever they want. The culture and the government has aided and abetted them.

            My husband has said, for decades now, that we gladly offer our children to be burnt on the altar of free sex.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

              They’ve been fed the lie that the baby is not human until it is born, and they’ve swallowed the lie in order to continue to live their own selfish lives doing whatever they want. The culture and the government has aided and abetted them.

              My husband has said, for decades now, that we gladly offer our children to be burnt on the altar of free sex.
              It's a common tactic of dehumanization that has been used very often to great (in magnitude, not goodness) effect. Slavery, the Holocaust, abortion, Abu Ghraib, Armenian genocide, Nanjing, the list goes on and on of people dehumanizing others to make slaughtering them and mistreating them easier and more 'accepted' by others in the society.
              "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
              - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

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              • #8
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                One thing that I'm having a hard time following in this debate is why some believe that a woman's bodily autonomy is a greater good, or more important, than a human life? What is the justification for that specific hierarchy of values?
                At the end of the day, the pandemic showed that "bodily autonomy" is just another buzzword they throw around and don't truly believe. It's why so many people pressed for direct or indirect vaccine mandates. If they believed in "Bodily Autonomy" they would not have done so.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer View Post

                  If it is not a human life, what is it? A plant?
                  You would have to ask them.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                    They don't see it as a life.
                    That's pretty much it. The old "nothing but a clump of cells" lie when an embryo is, in fact, a highly organized organism that meets even the strictest scientific definition of life.
                    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                    Than a fool in the eyes of God


                    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                      That's pretty much it. The old "nothing but a clump of cells" lie when an embryo is, in fact, a highly organized organism that meets even the strictest scientific definition of life.
                      I don't know much about this morning after pill, but it seems like a good solution if the science behind it were perfected. I understand that most Christians on this forum believe that life begins at conception. I'm not so sure. If the embryo can be terminated before a certain phase, then I personally don't see a problem with that. What phase is that? It is unclear to me, but just recently the thought came to me that maybe it's when the blood forms (life is in the blood). Terminating a pregnancy before the blood forms doesn't result in spilled blood.

                      If the science were perfected to be able to tell with certainty that the egg was indeed fertilized yesterday, then taking a pill to terminate that pregnancy today would take care of the entire war between the opposing groups.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Machinist View Post

                        I don't know much about this morning after pill, but it seems like a good solution if the science behind it were perfected. I understand that most Christians on this forum believe that life begins at conception. I'm not so sure. If the embryo can be terminated before a certain phase, then I personally don't see a problem with that. What phase is that? It is unclear to me, but just recently the thought came to me that maybe it's when the blood forms (life is in the blood). Terminating a pregnancy before the blood forms doesn't result in spilled blood.

                        If the science were perfected to be able to tell with certainty that the egg was indeed fertilized yesterday, then taking a pill to terminate that pregnancy today would take care of the entire war between the opposing groups.
                        Life begins at conception. This is not an opinion or belief but a scientific fact.
                        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                        Than a fool in the eyes of God


                        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                          Life begins at conception. This is not an opinion or belief but a scientific fact.
                          I don't object to that, and It's better to err on the side of caution. Like I said, I am 100% against aborting life.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                            I don't know much about this morning after pill, but it seems like a good solution if the science behind it were perfected. I understand that most Christians on this forum believe that life begins at conception. I'm not so sure. If the embryo can be terminated before a certain phase, then I personally don't see a problem with that. What phase is that? It is unclear to me, but just recently the thought came to me that maybe it's when the blood forms (life is in the blood). Terminating a pregnancy before the blood forms doesn't result in spilled blood.
                            The problem with your approach is that, as you have just seen, many Christians on this forum refuse to accept that there could be any such phase, and tend to assume anyone who would allow termination before such a phase would allow termination at any time before birth.

                            Though you've raised a point I'd never thought of, and am not sure about - the possibility that some-one taking a morning-after pill had unknowingly already been pregnant for some time.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

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                            Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              The problem with your approach is that, as you have just seen, many Christians on this forum refuse to accept that there could be any such phase, and tend to assume anyone who would allow termination before such a phase would allow termination at any time before birth.

                              Though you've raised a point I'd never thought of, and am not sure about - the possibility that some-one taking a morning-after pill had unknowingly already been pregnant for some time.
                              What is needed is a pill that would simply block the zygote from attaching to the uterine wall. From what I have read, 50 to 80 % of fertilized eggs never attach and are effectively miscarried. Ideally, the drug would only block the attachment phase, resulting in the fertilized egg being flushed away. It would have no effect on the baby that is already growing. I'm not sure, but I don't think the morning after pill is that precise in targeting only that function. If it were possible however, and such a technology became widespread, the abortion debate/war would be over.

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