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I expect pro abortion protests will quickly die out.

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  • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    "Supports" is a rather strong word.
    It is. It was chosen quite deliberately to describe your views.

    You make it sound like I'm a cheerleader for it. Disinterested apathy isn't support. I lack any desire to have it occur.
    Your posts here say otherwise.

    Showing your ethical system to be full of logical holes isn't just having a problem with it.
    I'm not interested in what someone so devoid of ethics and basic morality thinks about my ethical system

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seer View Post

      So we are back to inherently valueless human beings, where the Nazis are morally justified if they say they are. Where ethics are defined by might...
      1) There is a difference between "inherently valueless" and "not inherently valuable".

      2) It is not my opinion that the Nazis were morally justified, regardless of what they said or thought.,

      3) Ethics are not defined by might, though punishment for unethical behavior generally is.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by seer View Post

        I don't put any real value on trees, but I do on human life. BTW I think a squirrel would find the acorn more valuable.
        You don't? I guess you don't live in a house that has any wood in its construction. Maybe you've never sat under a tree and appreciated the shade on a hot day. I find trees to be beautiful and satisfying to the soul. Presumably you don't.

        Oh, and if squirrels didn't have anywhere above ground to build their nests and avoid predators they wouldn't last long. "Give a squirrel an acorn and he'll eat for an hour. Give him a tree, and he'll live comfortably in it for the rest of his life." And without trees there wouldn't be any acorns, though I doubt that squirrels understand that.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

          And one would think that a person would place more value on a person than on a pig, but some on the Left are in need of therapy.
          Speaking for myself, it's more that a pig should have the same (not more) consideration shown to it as a human. The reason that animal rights advocates seem to value non-human animals more is that our society is so out of balance on this. It's fine to kill a pig after subjecting it to a life far removed from it's natural way of life, but human life is "sacred". To attempt to restore the balance, we sometimes wax very indignant about animal suffering. The reality is, we would be delighted if pigs were treated the same as (not better than) humans (allowing for their separate needs and capabilities of course).

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

            Good. That should be the most rational position, to defend and value your own species. If for no other reason than empathy. We can have sympathy for animals, but we can have that and empathy with people.
            That's not rational at all. It's simply built in to us by evolution. And please don't say I don't have empathy with animals. I do, a lot.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
              It was chosen quite deliberately to describe your views.
              So you thought it was appropriate to deliberately misrepresent my views?

              I'm not interested in what someone so devoid of ethics and basic morality thinks about my ethical system
              You realize it's a fairly basic logical fallacy to discount the logic of arguments because you don't like the person making them?

              Maybe you could turn down the insults a notch? I don't spend all my posts insulting you guys, because it doesn't help discussion. I could equally call you all horrible and evil and ignorant of basic morality, but instead I just think that rather than writing it except on rare occasion.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                So you thought it was appropriate to deliberately misrepresent my views?
                I thought it was appropriate to emphasize your views for what they are instead of trying to play them down like you do.


                You realize it's a fairly basic logical fallacy to discount the logic of arguments because you don't like the person making them?
                You do realize I don't give a flying turd what someone who thinks infanticide is okay, thinks about my ethics, right? You do grasp that, correct? No sane person would care what such a monster would think about their ethics.
                Maybe you could turn down the insults a notch? I don't spend all my posts insulting you guys, because it doesn't help discussion. I could equally call you all horrible and evil and ignorant of basic morality, but instead I just think that rather than writing it except on rare occasion.
                Irony meter go boom.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Alien View Post

                  That's not rational at all. It's simply built in to us by evolution. And please don't say I don't have empathy with animals. I do, a lot.
                  I said it is the "most rational" position. Are you saying it is irrational? Not rational to identify with and defend your own species? If that was widespread enough, we'd be extinct.

                  As far as empathy, do you understand or share the thoughts of an animal?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    That Alabamastan wimmenfolk trick of using a weed wacker on poor Billy Bob on Saturday morning after he drank waaay too much Friday night, is illegal in other states.
                    No one does that. We just order him a 'birthday present' from Rogue Tech. The rocket powered string mower works particularly well. Gets the job done and you get a mini vacation for the month he's in the hospital.

                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stoic View Post
                      Ethics are not defined by might, though punishment for unethical behavior generally is.

                      If the Nazis had won the western world would the holocaust been seen as a moral good or a moral evil?
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by seer View Post
                        If the Nazis had won the western world would the holocaust been seen as a moral good or a moral evil?
                        Perhaps in government-approved textbooks, the former. How many bought into the propaganda is questionable.

                        I remember a Soviet émigré I worked with told me that students took a lot of Soviet textbook propaganda with skepticism. It was sometimes hard to sift out the truth, but they were suspicious of what they were told.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                          Endangered species could soon disappear from the face of the earth, never to be seen again.

                          Unwanted human fetuses will always be with us.
                          But liberals claims that human fetuses are just a mass of cells and not people, so then turtle fetuses are not turtles, right? But by making the eggs protected they are recognizing that they ARE indeed turtles that are endangered, not just a mass of cells. And I would argue that even an unwanted human being is worth more than a turtle. Who knows who that human being could grow up to be or who would want him/her after being born?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Stoic View Post

                            Subjectively, as you might have guessed.

                            The survival of a non-human species is valuable (to humans) because of the potential scientific/medical knowledge that would be lost if the species goes extinct, and because future generations would be unable to experience them.
                            And that aborted fetus could grow up to be the very person that makes those discoveries, Stoic. Or invent something that saves the planet.



                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              I value mental function, not DNA. Human fetuses don't have as much mental functioning as whales, so I value whales more. Human adults have more mental functioning than whales, so I value human adults more. It's not exactly complicated.

                              I do find it difficult to take seriously the approach you guys take based on species though. If you compare a human and whale fetus at an early stage of development there's not any meaningful functional difference, they are both just a bunch of multiplying cells with ~2% different programming in their DNA coding. It seems impossible to philosophically justify placing immensely more intrinsic value on the one than the other, and that is probably why experts in the biological sciences tend to be the most pro-choice segment of the population.
                              It's the potential that is there Star. If you leave the fetus alone and it develops and is born, that person contributes to society, has relationships, could change the world, or even one of their decedents might down the line. When you abort a fetus, you abort everything they might have accomplished and all of their decedents forever. Same reason we find murder of a child or young person so reprehensible, cutting off their life and potential before it even gets started. We are all connected Star. Good and bad.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Alien View Post

                                The point is that you would consider a fully grown tree much more valuable than an acorn.


                                If you destroy all of the acorns you won't have any oak trees. So if your goal is to gow a lot of valuable oak trees you will value the acorns very much.

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