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  • #91
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    "Negligence" on the borders? Do you mean the fact that he continued the Trump border policies for his first year in office?
    Starlight what Trump policy did he keep? Biden stopped the building of the wall, and trumps stay in Mexico policies on his first day.

    Cite your source or sources for this statement, unless you do we are under no obligation to accept your opinion as the fact is not in evidence.
    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 05-08-2022, 08:56 PM.

    Comment


    • #92
      Ronson I have seen a constant stream of criticism of Biden from progressive sources for being even worse than Trump on the border. It has centered around two things you mentioned:

      About 214,000 migrants were taken into custody in July of last year — the first time that many people had been apprehended in a single month in more than two decades.... He has left in place the pandemic health order issued in 2020 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, known as Title 42, to rapidly expel migrants at the border without allowing them to apply for asylum.

      Biden set records for the number of people taken into custody, and he continued the highly controversial Title 42 policy for rapidly expelling migrants.

      For those reasons many on the left regarded his border policies largely as a continuation of Trump policy or even a worsening of it.

      He halted construction of the border wall
      Trump's border wall thing was always a joke and scam though. Much of the border is floodplain and simply can't have wall, and what parts can have wall largely already do. Steve Bannon's wall scam got him prosecuted for fraud. There was very little Trump wall building to actually halt.

      created a task force to reunite families separated at the border
      I hope you're not against returning children to their parents? Also you do realize right that the result of this reunification is deporting more people - the entire family rather than just half the family? This is not a way for letting more people into the country, it's literally returning children that the Trump administration stole to their parents.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
        Starlight what Trump policy did he keep?
        Primarily the Title 42 rapid-deportation policy and the mass deportations it was causing.

        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/title-4...-covid-19-cdc/

        the Biden administration for over a year maintained the most sweeping border restriction enacted by former President Donald Trump: a pandemic-era order known as Title 42 that has led to the quick deportation of hundreds of thousands of migrants in two years.

        ...On March, 20, 2020, at the outset of the COVID-19 public health emergency, Trump previewed a measure to curb "mass uncontrolled cross-border movement," a move that would ultimately go further in restricting migration than any of his administration's previous hardline border policies.

        That day, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield invoked a World War II-era public health law to authorize U.S. border officials to promptly deport migrants. The law, found in Title 42 of the U.S. code, grants the government the "power to prohibit, in whole or in part, the introduction of persons and property" to stop a contagious disease from spreading in the U.S.

        The order Redfield signed said the deportations were necessary to control the spread of COVID-19 in border facilities, protect U.S. agents from the virus and preserve medical resources. While Redfield's initial order was enacted for 30 days, he extended it for another month in April 2020 and then indefinitely in May 2020.

        Despite its stated public health justification, the CDC order authorizing the deportations was signed over the objection of top experts at the agency who did not believe the unprecedented policy was justified

        ...Most migrants processed under Title 42 have been expelled by land to Mexico, and that process can take just a few hours.

        ...Last September, the Biden administration launched the largest Title 42 air expulsion blitz to date, expelling 10,000 deportees to Haiti in three months after the sudden arrival of thousands of migrants from the Caribbean country in Del Rio, Texas.

        The Biden and Trump administrations have argued that Title 42 supersedes U.S. asylum law, which allows migrants on U.S. soil to seek protection, regardless of their legal status. Hence, those processed under Title 42 are not allowed to file an application for asylum as a means to stop their expulsion.

        In nine months, the Trump administration carried out over 400,000 Title 42 expulsions along the southern border. During Mr. Biden's first full 13 months in office, U.S. border authorities have carried out over 1.2 million expulsions


        Biden has continued Trump's most sweeping border restriction, and has been deporting immigrants at more than twice the rate Trump did using this policy.

        If you believe immigrants should be deported, you would clearly support Biden over Trump given he's been deporting them at twice the rate.

        Biden stopped the building of the wall, and trumps stay in Mexico policies on his first day.
        The stay-in-Mexico policy got reimplemented later in the year by the Biden administration. Biden didn't build any further wall, but he didn't undo what wall Trump had built either.

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Ronson I have seen a constant stream of criticism of Biden from progressive sources for being even worse than Trump on the border. It has centered around two things you mentioned:

          About 214,000 migrants were taken into custody in July of last year — the first time that many people had been apprehended in a single month in more than two decades.... He has left in place the pandemic health order issued in 2020 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, known as Title 42, to rapidly expel migrants at the border without allowing them to apply for asylum.

          Biden set records for the number of people taken into custody, and he continued the highly controversial Title 42 policy for rapidly expelling migrants.

          For those reasons many on the left regarded his border policies largely as a continuation of Trump policy or even a worsening of it.

          He halted construction of the border wall
          Trump's border wall thing was always a joke and scam though. Much of the border is floodplain and simply can't have wall, and what parts can have wall largely already do. Steve Bannon's wall scam got him prosecuted for fraud. There was very little Trump wall building to actually halt.

          created a task force to reunite families separated at the border
          I hope you're not against returning children to their parents? Also you do realize right that the result of this reunification is deporting more people - the entire family rather than just half the family? This is not a way for letting more people into the country, it's literally returning children that the Trump administration stole to their parents.
          You said "the fact that he continued the Trump border policies for his first year in office". I just showed you that Biden did not. Now you're shifting your argument to one specific policy that Biden kept for pandemic reasons, but has been trying to end recently and was stopped.

          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/title-4...icials-may-23/

          Face it, you are getting your faulty news from TYT. Biden has no policy regarding the border. The massive arrests are only because many more immigrants are arriving after Biden practically invited them, publicly stating how lax he would be compared to Trump. So he's responsible for the increased influx.

          And many of these arrests wouldn't have been necessary if the "stay in Mexico" and border wall construction were continued.

          Try again.
          "You should just assume going forward that if I am ever wrong it is a typo" - Backup
          "
          Reality simply does not change based upon consensus or desire." - rogue

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Ronson View Post
            You said "the fact that he continued the Trump border policies for his first year in office". I just showed you that Biden did not. Now you're shifting your argument to one specific policy that Biden kept for pandemic reasons, but has been trying to end recently and was stopped.

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/title-4...icials-may-23/

            Face it, you are getting your faulty news from TYT.
            I cited CBS News above saying Biden "for over a year maintained the most sweeping border restriction enacted by former President Donald Trump" and expelled more than twice the number of migrants per month as Trump did.

            And your response is to claim it's from TYT? Do you have TYT derangement syndrome or something? CBS isn't TYT. Nor is TYT my most-watched news source nor is it where I've heard the most complaints about Biden using Title 42. You've got TYT on the brain. TYT is certainly an orders of magnitude better news source than the sort of trash that right-wing extremists tend to cite on this forum (we had Newsmax quoted a few posts back), but it's just not what I most commonly use and so your bringing it up when I didn't is weird.

            If Biden is expelling more than twice the migrants per month as Trump was, it seems to me you can't rationally claim that he's lax on immigration compared to Trump. He's not merely continued Trump's strongest restriction, but he's enforced it far more than Trump ever did. He's dropped Trump's virtue-signaling about pretending to build a wall and has instead massive ramped up actual expulsions, which are what actually count.

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

              This type of reasoning is problematic on a Christian board. Christianity teaches that people can change. I'm not saying Biden did. But arguing to the contrary in general does contradict the general thrust of the New Testament. Paul was able to go into ministry without permanently getting slandered as a Christian killer. If he's doing racist things now, then argue based on that, not what he did 30 years ago.
              We can insist he bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the LGBFJB community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                Biden has no policy regarding the border.
                I actually largely agree with this. It's clear the Biden administration doesn't really have a clear view what to do regarding the border. That's why they've defaulted to just ramping up the Trump Title 42 mass-expulsion border policies.

                Any ideas they might have had like path to citizenship, are going nowhere in congress, so they're stuck deporting migrants at a faster rate than Trump. Any expectations that the Biden administration would be softer on immigration than the Trump administration seem to have been well and truly dashed. They don't steal children or do scam wall projects like the Trump administration, but they do seem to kick out the migrants at a much higher rate.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  So your response to being called out for your falsehoods is to post more?

                  They key sentence in Biden's words is:
                  "If we cannot make significant progress on racial equity, this country is doomed."

                  The doom comes from the lack of significant progress on racial equity.
                  As pointed out, his recognition of the problem does not somehow magically negate the fact that he sees it as bad thing that America won't be majority white European which is dooming America -- and it isn't just African-Americans who are to blame.

                  To put it in a way that even someone like you might be able to grasp, imagine someone saying something like

                  "Look at those stupid [n-words] hanging off the edge of a cliff. Those [n-words] sure are stupid, but I guess we should still help them"


                  That the person recognizes they are in danger and realizes they should help in no way negates the fact that he's clearly a racist.

                  For old Joe the issue is two-fold; that "this country is doomed. It is doomed, not just because of African Americans"(i.e., the country is in trouble and blacks are partly too blame), "because by 2040 this country is going to be minority white European. Hear me? Minority white European." (i.e., we are in trouble because there are enough whites around).

                  You can't change that pig's ear into a silk purse not matter how much you try.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Ronson I have seen a constant stream of criticism of Biden from progressive sources for being even worse than Trump on the border. It has centered around two things you mentioned:

                    About 214,000 migrants were taken into custody in July of last year — the first time that many people had been apprehended in a single month in more than two decades.... He has left in place the pandemic health order issued in 2020 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, known as Title 42, to rapidly expel migrants at the border without allowing them to apply for asylum.

                    Biden set records for the number of people taken into custody, and he continued the highly controversial Title 42 policy for rapidly expelling migrants.

                    For those reasons many on the left regarded his border policies largely as a continuation of Trump policy or even a worsening of it.

                    He halted construction of the border wall
                    Trump's border wall thing was always a joke and scam though. Much of the border is floodplain and simply can't have wall, and what parts can have wall largely already do. Steve Bannon's wall scam got him prosecuted for fraud. There was very little Trump wall building to actually halt.

                    created a task force to reunite families separated at the border
                    I hope you're not against returning children to their parents? Also you do realize right that the result of this reunification is deporting more people - the entire family rather than just half the family? This is not a way for letting more people into the country, it's literally returning children that the Trump administration stole to their parents.
                    It is true that old Joe reinstituted the "Kids in Cages" policies that Trump was criticized for continuing, but ultimately stopped. But the left suddenly quit caring about that for some reason.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
                      Thought I'd fact check this. Unsurprisingly, like everything else you ever post, it turned out to be misleading and false. Crucially the video above starts half way through a sentence, and the first half of that sentence is a hypothetical.

                      Biden:
                      "If we cannot make significant progress on racial equity, this country is doomed. It is doomed, not just because of African Americans, but because by 2040 this country is going to be minority white European. Hear me? Minority white European. And you guys are going to have to start working more with Hispanics, who will make up a larger portion of the population than y’all do.

                      We're going to have to be working with a whole group of people that in fact are the single most diverse democracy in American history, than anywhere in the world. We gotta figure out how to unify this country. And you've been the leaders in being able to do that."


                      So his point is that the country is becoming more and more demographically diverse and thus making significant progress on racial equity is essential. And he's saying it's essential not just with African Americans but with other minority groups like Hispanics also. He says failure to do so will doom the country. It is not blacks who would be dooming the country, but the failure of those in power to make significant progress on racial equity that would be dooming it.

                      Perhaps Rogue you should be less gullible, and not credulously believe Newsmax videos when they've taken things out of context like starting half-way through a sentence?
                      Of course the fact that Joe made his point in the most racist way possible appears to be lost on you.
                      Last edited by Mountain Man; 05-09-2022, 06:16 AM.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                        This type of reasoning is problematic on a Christian board. Christianity teaches that people can change. I'm not saying Biden did. But arguing to the contrary in general does contradict the general thrust of the New Testament. Paul was able to go into ministry without permanently getting slandered as a Christian killer. If he's doing racist things now, then argue based on that, not what he did 30 years ago.
                        The evidence indicates that he hasn't changed over those 30 years.

                        Recently he told us TWICE that blacks tend to all think alike, that they aren't smart enough to figure out how to go online, that they aren't smart enough to hire a CPA if they open a business, that they are part of the problem dooming America and he appointed himself as the judge of who is and who isn't legitimately black.

                        And while he was best buddies with the most strident racists in the Senate when he was younger[1], helping them to resist desegregation, he has rewritten that history and now pretends that he was doing the opposite, that he was "involved with the African American community and the civil rights movement since I’ve been a junior in high school, desegregating movie theaters and the like."

                        And let's not forget how he described Obama:

                        "I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a storybook, man."


                        The "first" means that no other black was articulate, bright and... clean. All other blacks were by definition unintelligible, ignorant and dirty. According to old Joe this was such an anomaly that it's "storybook."






                        1. and his continuing to sing their praises, telling everyone what a swell bunch of guys they were is what prompted his now VP, Kamala Harris, to blast Biden for "coddl[ing] the reputations of segregationists" and resulted in Sen. Corey Booker questioning Biden's judgement and asking for him to apologize. An unrepentant Biden shot back "Apologize for what?" and then bizarrely demanded an apology from Booker (on Juneteenth no less).

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I cited CBS News above saying Biden "for over a year maintained the most sweeping border restriction enacted by former President Donald Trump" and expelled more than twice the number of migrants per month as Trump did.

                          And your response is to claim it's from TYT? Do you have TYT derangement syndrome or something? CBS isn't TYT. Nor is TYT my most-watched news source nor is it where I've heard the most complaints about Biden using Title 42. You've got TYT on the brain. TYT is certainly an orders of magnitude better news source than the sort of trash that right-wing extremists tend to cite on this forum (we had Newsmax quoted a few posts back), but it's just not what I most commonly use and so your bringing it up when I didn't is weird.
                          Newsmax is a news aggregate that composes some of its own stories. TYT is not; it is Leftist propaganda (which you have honored in the past here).

                          If Biden is expelling more than twice the migrants per month as Trump was, it seems to me you can't rationally claim that he's lax on immigration compared to Trump. He's not merely continued Trump's strongest restriction, but he's enforced it far more than Trump ever did. He's dropped Trump's virtue-signaling about pretending to build a wall and has instead massive ramped up actual expulsions, which are what actually count.
                          WaPo disagrees. Only Title 42 (which Biden is trying to end) has been effective at the border. Otherwise, Biden is just eating ice cream.

                          https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...tions-arrests/
                          "You should just assume going forward that if I am ever wrong it is a typo" - Backup
                          "
                          Reality simply does not change based upon consensus or desire." - rogue

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            Primarily the Title 42 rapid-deportation policy and the mass deportations it was causing.

                            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/title-4...-covid-19-cdc/

                            the Biden administration for over a year maintained the most sweeping border restriction enacted by former President Donald Trump: a pandemic-era order known as Title 42 that has led to the quick deportation of hundreds of thousands of migrants in two years.

                            ...On March, 20, 2020, at the outset of the COVID-19 public health emergency, Trump previewed a measure to curb "mass uncontrolled cross-border movement," a move that would ultimately go further in restricting migration than any of his administration's previous hardline border policies.

                            That day, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield invoked a World War II-era public health law to authorize U.S. border officials to promptly deport migrants. The law, found in Title 42 of the U.S. code, grants the government the "power to prohibit, in whole or in part, the introduction of persons and property" to stop a contagious disease from spreading in the U.S.

                            The order Redfield signed said the deportations were necessary to control the spread of COVID-19 in border facilities, protect U.S. agents from the virus and preserve medical resources. While Redfield's initial order was enacted for 30 days, he extended it for another month in April 2020 and then indefinitely in May 2020.

                            Despite its stated public health justification, the CDC order authorizing the deportations was signed over the objection of top experts at the agency who did not believe the unprecedented policy was justified

                            ...Most migrants processed under Title 42 have been expelled by land to Mexico, and that process can take just a few hours.

                            ...Last September, the Biden administration launched the largest Title 42 air expulsion blitz to date, expelling 10,000 deportees to Haiti in three months after the sudden arrival of thousands of migrants from the Caribbean country in Del Rio, Texas.

                            The Biden and Trump administrations have argued that Title 42 supersedes U.S. asylum law, which allows migrants on U.S. soil to seek protection, regardless of their legal status. Hence, those processed under Title 42 are not allowed to file an application for asylum as a means to stop their expulsion.

                            In nine months, the Trump administration carried out over 400,000 Title 42 expulsions along the southern border. During Mr. Biden's first full 13 months in office, U.S. border authorities have carried out over 1.2 million expulsions


                            Biden has continued Trump's most sweeping border restriction, and has been deporting immigrants at more than twice the rate Trump did using this policy.
                            Trumps Title 42 policy? you mean the one that Biden is now trying to get rid of?

                            If you believe immigrants should be deported, you would clearly support Biden over Trump given he's been deporting them at twice the rate.
                            I think you are not using the correct metric again. In order to see how Bidens non policies are working compared to Trumps Policies you have to see how many illegal immigrants got into the country during Trumps time as opposed to how many are getting in now and then look at the deportations percentage based on those numbers, you know the metric you wrongfully tried to use to try and prove that America is not the most popular destination the world wants to immigrate to?

                            The stay-in-Mexico policy got reimplemented later in the year by the Biden administration. Biden didn't build any further wall, but he didn't undo what wall Trump had built either.
                            This is why you need to diversify where you get your news and information from( and I don't' mean going to more then one source that says what you want to hear you need to go to sources who's politics, world view, etc are different then yours as well) you have been a victim of leftist news media disinformation here since they did not give you the correct facts. The fact is the Courts ordered the Biden Administration to re-implement the stay in Mexico policy Biden and his administration have yet to do so; In-fact they did and are doing everything they can to get that order overturned.
                            Last edited by RumTumTugger; 05-09-2022, 10:48 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Just watch this video starting around 56 seconds in. He can't remember what he is talking about, loses his train of thought, can't pronounce words. And this is all in context, it goes on for some time.
                              This is not normal.


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Just watch this video starting around 56 seconds in. He can't remember what he is talking about, loses his train of thought, can't pronounce words. And this is all in context, it goes on for some time.
                                This is not normal.

                                Propaganda from the vast rightwing conspiracy.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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