Coach in Case on School Prayer

[seer]

I see no problem here, change my mind!

Supreme Court Leans Toward Coach in Case on School Prayer

Members of the court’s conservative majority indicated that the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, had a constitutional right to kneel and pray at the 50-yard line after games.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court’s conservative majority seemed to be searching on Monday for a narrow way to rule in favor of a former high school football coach who lost his job for praying at the 50-yard line after his team’s games.

The task was complicated by factual disputes over the conduct of the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, and the varying rationales offered by the school district in Bremerton, Wash., for disciplining him.

The case pits the rights of government workers to free speech and the free exercise of their faith against the Constitution’s prohibition of government endorsement of religion and Supreme Court precedents that forbid pressuring students to participate in religious activities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/u...all-coach.html

[rogue06]

I see no problem here, change my mind!

Supreme Court Leans Toward Coach in Case on School Prayer

Members of the court’s conservative majority indicated that the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, had a constitutional right to kneel and pray at the 50-yard line after games.

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court’s conservative majority seemed to be searching on Monday for a narrow way to rule in favor of a former high school football coach who lost his job for praying at the 50-yard line after his team’s games.

The task was complicated by factual disputes over the conduct of the coach, Joseph A. Kennedy, and the varying rationales offered by the school district in Bremerton, Wash., for disciplining him.

The case pits the rights of government workers to free speech and the free exercise of their faith against the Constitution’s prohibition of government endorsement of religion and Supreme Court precedents that forbid pressuring students to participate in religious activities.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/25/u...all-coach.html

Was he leading players in prayer? If so, were they coming over to participate under their own free will?

[seer]

Was he leading players in prayer? If so, were they coming over to participate under their own free will?

Nope, he was not leading the prayer. But the students (often from both teams) would join him. No compulsion - many players did not join in...

[rogue06]

Nope, he was not leading the prayer. But the students (often from both teams) would join him. No compulsion - many players did not join in...

The fact that students from other teams would join in as well pretty much cancels any argument that they participated in order to get on the coach's "good side" and be able to play more often.

[Gondwanaland]

I see no problem here, change my mind!

[B]

I always find these sorts of cases to be entertaining. If he hasn't compelled players (and if players on other teams join freely), I don't particularly see a problem legally.

The entertaining part is seeing Christians ignore what Jesus himself taught in multiple places in order to make themselves seen praying in highly public places. Modern day Pharisees

Scripture Verse: Luke 18

The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector


⁹ To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: ¹⁰ “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. ¹¹ The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. ¹² I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

¹³ “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

¹⁴ “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

© Copyright Original Source

Scripture Verse: Matthew 6

⁵ “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ⁶ But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ⁷ And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. ⁸ Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

© Copyright Original Source

[seer]

The fact that students from other teams would join in as well pretty much cancels any argument that they participated in order to get on the coach's "good side" and be able to play more often.

The school is claiming coercion. But there were good questions in the oral argument - would a teacher who bows her head and prays before a meal in the lunch room be religious endorsement? Wearing a cross or a Yamaka?

[seer]

I always find these sorts of cases to be entertaining. If he hasn't compelled players (and if players on other teams join freely), I don't particularly see a problem legally.

The entertaining part is seeing Christians ignore what Jesus himself taught in multiple places in order to make themselves seen praying in highly public places. Modern day Pharisees

Jesus prayed in public, Christ was warning about hypocrisy, and I have have no reason to believe that the coach was not sincere. But this is about whether his praying was Constitutionally protected free speech.

[rogue06]

The school is claiming coercion. But there were good questions in the oral argument - would a teacher who bows her head and prays before a meal in the lunch room be religious endorsement? Wearing a cross or a Yamaka?

The latter is exactly what I was thinking of while showering.

[Gondwanaland]

Jesus prayed in public, Christ was warning about hypocrisy, and I have have no reason to believe that the coach was not sincere. But this is about whether his praying was Constitutionally protected free speech.

Jesus didn't pray standing on street corners to be seen by others.

That's what this coach is doing. He's standing in the middle of a football field, praying out loud, right at the end of a game. You don't get much more 'street corner to be seen by others' than that.

I understand, though, today's Christians don't care much about any teaching by Jesus that gets in the way of their performative acts to make people see how godly and Christian they are. Little more than the Christian version of the virtue signalling that the left does.

[rogue06]

Jesus didn't pray standing on street corners to be seen by others.

That's what this coach is doing. He's standing in the middle of a football field, praying out loud, right at the end of a game. You don't get much more 'street corner to be seen by others' than that.

I understand, though, today's Christians don't care much about any teaching by Jesus that gets in the way of their performative acts to make people see how godly and Christian they are. Little more than the Christian version of the virtue signalling that the left does.

Jesus prayed publicly upon occasion (Mark 8:6 and John 6:11 for instance). What He was against was people doing it solely so others could see them acting pious. The coach is doing it immediately after an event. When the crowd was leaving and few if any were paying any sort of attention to what might be happening on the field. In such circumstances offering a prayer isn't an issue. It is going out of your way to find an opportunity to show off by praying that was condemned.

[seer]

The latter is exactly what I was thinking of while showering.

While showering? Way too much information!

[seer]

Jesus didn't pray standing on street corners to be seen by others.

That's what this coach is doing. He's standing in the middle of a football field, praying out loud, right at the end of a game. You don't get much more 'street corner to be seen by others' than that.

I understand, though, today's Christians don't care much about any teaching by Jesus that gets in the way of their performative acts to make people see how godly and Christian they are. Little more than the Christian version of the virtue signalling that the left does.

That is not the discussion but is about whether his praying was Constitutionally protected free speech. Try and stay on topic...

[rogue06]

While showering? Way too much information!

At least it was while I was still washing my hair and hadn't moved down yet.

[seer]

At least it was while I was still washing my hair and hadn't moved down yet.

[Gondwanaland]

Jesus prayed publicly upon occasion (Mark 8:6 and John 6:11 for instance). What He was against was people doing it solely so others could see them acting pious. The coach is doing it immediately after an event. When the crowd was leaving and few if any were paying any sort of attention to what might be happening on the field. In such circumstances offering a prayer isn't an issue. It is going out of your way to find an opportunity to show off by praying that was condemned.

Then why doesn't he just pray silently in his sideline stand? Why the need for out loud performative prayer in the middle of the field, where everyone can see? He IS going out of his way to find an opportunity to show off by praying. You can't get much more of a showoff than that, unless he went and took a bullhorn to do it.