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Some interesting new developments

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  • Some interesting new developments

    If Putin was under the impression that his aggression towards Ukraine would deter any possible movement in Finland or Sweden from advocating that either country joined NATO [including his threat of “serious military-political consequences” if either country did so] it appears to have just backfired rather badly.



    Far from intimidating Finland and Sweden not to to risk Russian ire, the Finns and Swedes are now considering applying to join.

    https://www.euronews.com/2022/03/01/...n-joining-nato
    Finland's parliament is discussing a petition to hold a referendum on joining NATO following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

    A petition of more than 50,000 signatures has called on Finnish MPs to debate NATO membership amid the conflict.

    Finland's Prime Minister Sanna Marin has confirmed that parties will be asked to discuss the petition on Tuesday.

    But she added on Twitter that the country's parliament would not hold a "broad" debate on joining the Western military alliance.

    "The event will not include a broader discussion on Finland's line on military alliance or non-alignment," Marin said.

    A recent poll found that a clear majority of Finnish citizens are in favour of joining NATO for the first time amid the war in Ukraine.

    Public television Yle found that 53% of those surveyed were in favour of joining NATO, while only 28% were against and 19% were undecided.

    A previous poll carried out by commercial broadcaster MTV3 in January showed 30% of people at that time wanted to join NATO.

    A shift in attitudes is also reflected in the country's politics, with majority support for NATO accession across supporters of all parliamentary parties except the Left Alliance.

    Helsinki has reaffirmed in recent days that it has no plans to join NATO despite Vladimir Putin's ordered attack on Ukraine.

    However, politicians have said the option of joining the military alliance does remain on the table.

    Moscow has also warned Finland -- and neighbouring Sweden -- that NATO membership would have "serious military and political repercussions".

    Finland also announced on Monday that it had taken the "historic" decision to supply arms to Ukraine -- namely 2,500 assault rifles, 150,000 rounds of ammunition, 1,500 rocket launchers and 70,000 field ration packages.

    Finland has Europe’s longest border with Russia at over 1,300 kilometres.




    https://www.reuters.com/business/med...ll-2022-03-04/

    STOCKHOLM/COPENHAGEN, March 4 (Reuters) - Russia's invasion of Ukraine has for the first time seen a majority of Swedes in favour of joining NATO, according to a poll, and signs are the political landscape could to change too in a country long known for neutrality.

    Sweden has not been in a war since 1814 and has built its foreign policy on "non-participation in military alliances." It remained neutral throughout World War Two even as neighbouring Nordic countries were invaded, and during the Cold War.

    A poll on Friday by Demoskop and commissioned by Aftonbladet newspaper showed 51% of Swedes are now in favour of NATO membership, up from 42% in January. People against joining fell to 27% from 37%. It's the first time such a poll has shown a majority in favour.

    However, Sweden's Defence Minister Peter Hultqvist said joining NATO was not an easy decision, nor one that could be rushed based on recent events alone.

    "To change the defence doctrine, that is a very huge decision, so you don't do it overnight and you cannot do it because of opinion polls," he told a news conference in Copenhagen where he met his Danish and British counterparts.

    However, the Sweden Democrats, the third biggest party in parliament, said on Friday it was reviewing its stance, which could give a majority in parliament to those who wish to join.

    "We are analyzing the situation now, hour by hour more or less, looking at the NATO issue, looking at other security policy collaborations and what we can do," Aron Emilsson, foreign policy spokesperson for the Sweden Democrats told Swedish Radio.

    "It is clear that everything is put in a completely different light right now," he said.

    Sweden's centre-right opposition has long called for membership but the Social Democrats, the Left Party, the Greens and the nationalist Sweden Democrats have resisted the move.

    The shift in opinion echoes that in close ally and NATO non-member Finland, where the head of the Finnish Institute of International Affairs described Russia's attack on Ukraine as a wake-up call and "Europe's 9/11 for Finns." read more

    Claes Levinsson, director at the Institute for Russian and Eurasian Studies at Uppsala University said the close cooperation between Sweden and Finland, which include joint military drills and materiel purchases, meant that if Finland joined, Sweden probably would too.

    "Sweden is closer than ever before to joining NATO but it would need a substantial majority both in parliament and among the people. It would require the Social Democrats changing opinion", Levinsson said, adding that NATO's process of accepting members could also take time.

    Sweden and Finland already have very close cooperation with NATO and Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said in January the two countries could join the alliance "very quickly" if they decided to apply for membership. On Friday he said NATO had decided to strengthen coordination further.

    "Both countries are now taking part in all NATO consultations about the crisis," Stoltenberg said.

    Russia, which says it is conducting a "special operation" in Ukraine, has warned Sweden and Finland against joining NATO, saying it would lead to "serious military and political consequences."

    Sweden took the decision this month to send weapons to Ukraine, the first time since 1939 Sweden sent weapons to a country at war.



    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    I think Putin has miscalculated multiple things starting with the effectiveness of the Russian army.
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      If Putin was under the impression that his aggression towards Ukraine would deter any possible movement in Finland or Sweden from advocating that either country joined NATO [including his threat of “serious military-political consequences” if either country did so] it appears to have just backfired rather badly.

      Far from intimidating Finland and Sweden not to to risk Russian ire, the Finns and Swedes are now considering applying to join.
      I have to wonder how many fronts Putin wants for this war.
      1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
      Scripture before Tradition:
      but that won't prevent others from
      taking it upon themselves to deprive you
      of the right to call yourself Christian.

      ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        I have to wonder how many fronts Putin wants for this war.
        A tweet today from the Russian mouthpiece РИА Новости [RIA news]


        Австралия, Великобритания, страны ЕС, Исландия, Канада, Лихтенштейн, Монако, Новая Зеландия, Норвегия, Корея, Сан-Марино, Сингапур, США, Тайвань, Украина, Черногория, Швейцария, Япония

        [The government has approved a list of countries unfriendly to Russia. It included, among other things: Australia, UK, EU countries, Iceland, Canada, Liechtenstein, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Korea, San Marino, Singapore, USA, Taiwan, Ukraine, Montenegro, Switzerland, Japan]


        That appears to be a sizeable section of the world.

        An amusing tweet back reads;

        Список физически и этически маленьких людей, жестоко нападающих на независимую европейскую нацию в преступных и империалистических целях:
        1. Путин
        [List of physically and ethically small people brutally attacking an independent European nation for criminal and imperialistic purposes:
        1. Putin]
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          I have to wonder how many fronts Putin wants for this war.
          Quite. It reminds me of Kenneth Williams as Julius Caesar in Carry on Cleo, "Infamy Infamy they've all got it in for me".
          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            Quite. It reminds me of Kenneth Williams as Julius Caesar in Carry on Cleo, "Infamy Infamy they've all got it in for me".
            Seems he's got his eyes on Moldova already. Non NATO aligned countries up that way do well to consider joining.

            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post

              Seems he's got his eyes on Moldova already. Non NATO aligned countries up that way do well to consider joining.

              One is tempted to opine "The sooner the better".
              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                Seems he's got his eyes on Moldova already. Non NATO aligned countries up that way do well to consider joining.

                If that's true, Putin is definitely trying to rebuild the old USSR.

                This, of course, was prophesied by The Simpsons in March 1998. (Reference starts at about 0.35)

                Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 03-08-2022, 10:53 AM.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                  If that's true, Putin is definitely trying to rebuild the old USSR.

                  This, of course, was prophesied by The Simpsons in March 1998. (Reference starts at about 0.35)

                  It has been suggested that he sees himself as a sort of new Czar of all the Russias.
                  "It ain't necessarily so
                  The things that you're liable
                  To read in the Bible
                  It ain't necessarily so
                  ."

                  Sportin' Life
                  Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    It has been suggested that he sees himself as a sort of new Czar of all the Russias.
                    Going back to rumors of cancer -- maybe he sees this as his one chance to leave a lasting legacy. To join the pantheon of great Russian leaders.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Going back to rumors of cancer -- maybe he sees this as his one chance to leave a lasting legacy. To join the pantheon of great Russian leaders.
                      Why do you think he has cancer? He looks healthy to me, and he appears to be in the news every day (meaning, he's out and about).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        Why do you think he has cancer? He looks healthy to me, and he appears to be in the news every day (meaning, he's out and about).
                        He is looking puffy around the face which some have suggested might be the result of steroids. He's also [literally] distanced himself from others which may [I stress the word] suggest his immune system is weakened. Steroids are used for certain cancers and chemo impacts negatively on the immune system.

                        "It ain't necessarily so
                        The things that you're liable
                        To read in the Bible
                        It ain't necessarily so
                        ."

                        Sportin' Life
                        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Going back to rumors of cancer -- maybe he sees this as his one chance to leave a lasting legacy. To join the pantheon of great Russian leaders.
                          Well we all know how the last Czar ended up.
                          "It ain't necessarily so
                          The things that you're liable
                          To read in the Bible
                          It ain't necessarily so
                          ."

                          Sportin' Life
                          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            He is looking puffy around the face which some have suggested might be the result of steroids. He's also [literally] distanced himself from others which may [I stress the word] suggest his immune system is weakened. Steroids are used for certain cancers and chemo impacts negatively on the immune system.
                            I think he's distancing himself from others as a protection against being assassinated.
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              Well we all know how the last Czar ended up.
                              Nicholas will never be listed among the great tsars.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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