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"Oh, to be in England"...or perhaps not!

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  • "Oh, to be in England"...or perhaps not!

    This is a sort of "follow on" from the thread Fleeing the USA and some of the comments made on that thread.

    It is an op-ed piece by the chief political correspondent of The Observer [sister paper to The Guardian]

    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-three-at-once

    Fit for a prince. “By royal appointment” has traditionally been a recommendation of provenance, quality and trustworthiness. A royal handle today serves as a warning of potential ignominy. As Oscar Wilde didn’t quite write, for one prince to be embroiled in scandal may be regarded as a misfortune, two looks like a pattern. Buckingham Palace must be fervently hoping that no one has anything on Prince Edward.

    Prince Andrew is paying a large sum to a woman he claims never to have met rather than face interrogation about her accusations of sexual assault before a jury in New York. Prince Charles denies knowing anything about cash for honours, but says he will help the police with their inquiries into whether a Saudi billionaire’s payments to royal charities bought the donor a gong.

    At times like these, when questions swirl around the conduct of two of the Queen’s sons, it would be usual for the monarch to seek succour from her prime minister. But Boris Johnson is not the go-to person for advice on how to avoid disgrace. Some members of Her Majesty’s government are even taking secret pleasure in the travails of the crown. It would suit Downing Street if the bad odours around the House of Windsor distracted public attention from the great stink generated by Number 10.

    Britain is not unfamiliar with scandals of political and royal varieties, but this combination goes to the apex of the state in a way without precedent. We have the prime minister and the heir to the throne involved in investigations by the Metropolitan police, itself so poisoned with scandal that Dame Cressida Dick has been forced to quit as commissioner of the Met. This is happening at a time when the reputations of many other estates of the realm are severely corroded. Rarely a month, or a week, passes without one institution or another being put in the dock for incompetence, misconduct, cronyism or corruption. Faith in MPs has not recovered from the expenses outrages that were exposed in 2009 and it was not long ago that parliament was rocked by inquiries and resignations over sexual harassment and bullying. The House of Lords is tainted every time the bloated ranks of unelected peers are further swollen by the introduction of more party donors and muckers of the prime minister, a sleazy game that did not start with Mr Johnson, but one that he has played with characteristic brazenness.

    The bankers have never restored the trust they lost when their avaricious recklessness led to the financial crash. This year’s bumper bonus season will do nothing to endear them to those feeling the squeeze on living standards. The deaths caused by the Grenfell Tower inferno, and the legacy of misery inflicted on the tens of thousands of people trapped in unsafe and unsellable flats, have made pariahs of the construction industry.

    The reputation of the army has been diminished by defeats on the battlefields of Afghanistan and Iraq along with bullying and sexual assault cases. The established church has expressed its “shame” over its failures to deal with sexual predators in dog collars. The pandemic has not seen the civil service purr like a Rolls Royce, but backfire like an old banger. The prime minister’s principal private secretary sent the invites to the notorious “bring your own booze party” in the garden of Number 10 and the hapless cabinet secretary had to recuse himself from leading an inquiry into lockdown-busting in Downing Street when it was revealed that his own office had hosted a quiz.

    Journalists cannot be holier than thou, because the media has also debased itself. The tabloid press was disgraced by phone-hacking. The BBC has often been on the rack, most recently over the Martin Bashir business. Not just one or two of our once-venerated institutions are in trouble. The credibility and moral authority of the entire structure of public life is shuddering.

    These multiple crises in multiple institutions have features in common. One overarching theme is a paucity of high-calibre personnel. Where are the leaders with the quality and strength of character to infuse the organisations they head with decent values? The Johnson government was guaranteed to be engulfed in opprobrium from the moment that Tory MPs decided to give the premiership to an amoral man. The Queen commands huge public respect, but she is notoriously reluctant to confront issues within her family. It took a long time and intense pressure before Prince Andrew was stripped of his military titles and royal patronages. Three of the past four Met commissioners have been forced to quit. I struggle to decide whether leading London’s constabulary is too much for any one person or if the police are incapable of producing anyone with the smarts and grip to drive reform.

    Other shared characteristics of dysfunctional institutions are hostility to legitimate criticism, an unwillingness to acknowledge mistakes and a resistance to being held accountable. All these were factors in the Post Office scandal. Hundreds of postmasters were wrongly accused of theft, fraud and embezzlement based on faulty evidence from a computer system known to be unreliable. Ruination was brought down on the reputations, livelihoods and families of wholly innocent people. Some were imprisoned, many were heavily fined, a lot were made bankrupt. The largest miscarriage of justice in recent British history, it is absolutely despicable. Yet none of the Post Office’s leadership at the time has been held to account. Nor has anyone from Fujitsu, the company to blame for the faulty software. Nor have any of the civil servants or politicians with supervisory responsibilities. More than 20 years since the first false prosecutions, a public inquiry is finally underway, but it is too late for many of the victims, at least four of whom are believed to have taken their own lives.

    The political scientist David Runciman identified another pathology of sickly institutions when he wrote that degeneration is often sourced in “a growing sense of impunity among small networks of elites. As British society has become more unequal it has created pockets of privilege whose inhabitants are tempted to think that the normal rules don’t apply to them.” He wrote that eight years ago and it rings even truer today.

    The princes were cocooned in plush pockets of privilege from the moment they were born. The prime minister has made a career of behaving as if normal rules don’t apply to him. It is dangerous when institutions are populated with entitled characters who believe they are superior to other citizens. Unchecked, this will inevitably lead to reprehensible conduct. The abuse of power reached a murderous level in the case of Wayne Couzens, the Met officer who abducted and killed Sarah Everard. The fall of Dame Cressida was in part impelled by the publication of a searing report by the Independent Office for Police Conduct into misogyny, racism and other bigotries within the force. It revealed messages between officers in which one bragged about hitting his girlfriend, another told a female colleague he would “happily rape you”, jokes were made about killing black children and abuse was directed at Muslims and disabled people. In other walks of life, behaviour so disgusting would be career-ruining. Yet nine of the officers investigated kept their jobs and two were promoted.

    From bad coppers to the delinquent at Number 10, from the lords of finance to the construction barons, from princes to dodgy parliamentarians, a culture of impunity is often at the root of institutional putrefaction. Left untreated, rot spreads. When wrongdoing by reprobate politicians goes unpunished, rogue police officers are emboldened to think that they can also get away with anything.

    Once upon a time, Britons would have been astonished and appalled to find scandal simultaneously bespoiling their royal family, prime minister and largest police force. We are less shockable now. There’s a good reason, which is that there is much less naive reverence for institutions than there was in the past. There’s also a bad reason for our diminished capacity to be scandalised by scandal. We have become wearily accustomed to seeing the public trust betrayed. Where once jaws would have dropped, grotesque misconduct in public life often provokes no more than a fleeting furore or a resigned shrug. That makes us part of the problem, too. When we expect to be let down, we settle for further decay. The British won’t get better service from their institutions until they start demanding it and so insistently that they can’t be ignored.


    What a litany. A country of sleaze, corruption, incompetence, and ineffectual leadership with no one at the top even attempting to accept responsibility while ordinary people continue to suffer the effects of their useless leaders and high ranking personnel.

    Definitely a country to cross of the list if anyone is thinking of leaving the USA to live elsewhere. For some years a general joke over here has been that Britain is the Edited by a Moderator of Europe. All the above merely serves to confirm that view.

    One wonders when the Brits are going to finally wake up and realise what a base and corrupt system they actually live in and that the sunny uplands of Brexit was nothing but an illusion premised on xenophobia and a delusion that Britain was still a Great Power.

    All that has now vanished like Scotch mist.

    Last edited by Cerebrum123; 02-21-2022, 09:10 AM.
    "It ain't necessarily so
    The things that you're liable
    To read in the Bible
    It ain't necessarily so
    ."

    Sportin' Life
    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

  • #2
    Charles should've started a Foundation where the money can vanish from.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
      What a litany. A country of sleaze, corruption, incompetence, and ineffectual leadership with no one at the top even attempting to accept responsibility while ordinary people continue to suffer the effects of their useless leaders and high ranking personnel.

      Definitely a country to cross of the list if anyone is thinking of leaving the USA to live elsewhere. For some years a general joke over here has been that Britain is the @hole of Europe. All the above merely serves to confirm that view.

      One wonders when the Brits are going to finally wake up and realise what a base and corrupt system they actually live in and that the sunny uplands of Brexit was nothing but an illusion premised on xenophobia and a delusion that Britain was still a Great Power.

      All that has now vanished like Scotch mist.
      Oh my. Britain must have stepped on your toes this morning.

      The biggest problem with Britain is having that stupid royal family. I can't help but wonder if the Pythons meant to refer to Americans as being crude and endorsing democracy while flailing in the mud.

      Last edited by Ronson; 02-20-2022, 09:50 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

        Oh my. Britain must have stepped on your toes this morning.
        Au contraire. We have been following recent events here with a mixture of disbelief and humour. As a reader of Private Eye magazine for upward of 30+ years [and a regular listener to the BBC including the World Service] I am fully acquainted with the sleaze that pervades many aspects of Britain.

        Originally posted by Ronson View Post
        The biggest problem with Britain is having that stupid royal family.
        Again from The Guardian:

        https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...arles-monarchy

        As was found during the divorce and death of Diana, Princess of Wales, it left the royal family vulnerable to mass public opinion. This is currently in decline. While a steady two-thirds of the British public still favour monarchy, that is by no means everyone. The longstanding Ipsos Mori survey shows its popularity sliding in just a decade from near 80% in 2012 to 60% at present. Hence the palace’s hypersensitivity to the media glare that has visited the allegations against Prince Andrew and the high-profile departure of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex from the family. The crown has rescued itself from such controversies in the past, but it has done so largely through the personality of the Queen in drawing on deep reserves of personal affection.

        After her death, this will be extremely hard for the Prince of Wales to regenerate. The moment of transition to any new monarch, not least after 70 years, must be one of intense delicacy. Nothing could therefore more aid Prince Charles in his succession than for it to be a planned transfer on the retirement of his mother and her blessing on his coronation. She has broken nearly all records for time in office. She has prepared the way for the Duchess of Cornwall to become queen. Charles has reportedly committed himself to Buckingham Palace.


        What happens when Brenda goes of course, remains to be seen. I read somewhere [cannot remember where] that Brian/Charles has always been loathed by the RW press and the writer postulated the likelihood that tabloids like The Sun will conduct polls of readers suggesting he abdicates in favour of the eldest boy William.

        I do not know if it was ever shown in the USA but there was a hilarious satirical series called The Windsors - with Harry Enfield as Charles, and Kate apparently coming from gypsy stock. One hilarious scene is in Kate and Williams bedroom where he chides her for having a pile of old white goods and she quips something along the lines of "There's £20 worth of copper in that lot".

        The series first went out in 2016 [they even did a Royal Wedding special when Harry married Meghan].

        If you can find it do watch and have a laugh.

        One of my favourite lines is from Richard Goulding as Harry [a remarkable look-alike] when he is perusing the scheming Pippa's diary and laments "If only I could read"!

        Here's a short trailer [some clips might offend sensitive types] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvHVCguMS0

        There is also a West End show based on the series. https://thewindsorsendgame.com/
        "It ain't necessarily so
        The things that you're liable
        To read in the Bible
        It ain't necessarily so
        ."

        Sportin' Life
        Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
          What a litany. A country of sleaze, corruption, incompetence, and ineffectual leadership with no one at the top even attempting to accept responsibility while ordinary people continue to suffer the effects of their useless leaders and high ranking personnel.

          Definitely a country to cross of the list if anyone is thinking of leaving the USA to live elsewhere. For some years a general joke over here has been that Britain is the Edited by a Moderator of Europe. All the above merely serves to confirm that view.

          One wonders when the Brits are going to finally wake up and realise what a base and corrupt system they actually live in and that the sunny uplands of Brexit was nothing but an illusion premised on xenophobia and a delusion that Britain was still a Great Power.
          Yes, I can't remember the last time I was proud of my country - certainly not in recent years as our elected 'leaders' have crapped themselves on the world stage. I never did understand the 'my country right or wrong' lot.

          But then:

          a) I'm a republican (in the 'not royalist' sense of the term)
          b) I didn't vote for this lot, and never have
          c) I was a remainer (I say 'was', as now we've left the word has ceased to have any meaning)

          I don't have anything to say to correct you on, they really are a shameful bunch, but until we can kick the FPTP system to the curb there's not much I can do to change it, just watch as a minority of my country keep voting this lot in again and again at the behest of a tiny group of non-dom press barons.
          Last edited by Cerebrum123; 02-21-2022, 09:10 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
            Au contraire. We have been following recent events here with a mixture of disbelief and humour. As a reader of Private Eye magazine for upward of 30+ years [and a regular listener to the BBC including the World Service] I am fully acquainted with the sleaze that pervades many aspects of Britain.

            Again from The Guardian:

            https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...arles-monarchy

            As was found during the divorce and death of Diana, Princess of Wales, it left the royal family vulnerable to mass public opinion. This is currently in decline. While a steady two-thirds of the British public still favour monarchy, that is by no means everyone. The longstanding Ipsos Mori survey shows its popularity sliding in just a decade from near 80% in 2012 to 60% at present. Hence the palace’s hypersensitivity to the media glare that has visited the allegations against Prince Andrew and the high-profile departure of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex from the family. The crown has rescued itself from such controversies in the past, but it has done so largely through the personality of the Queen in drawing on deep reserves of personal affection.

            After her death, this will be extremely hard for the Prince of Wales to regenerate.
            The moment of transition to any new monarch, not least after 70 years, must be one of intense delicacy. Nothing could therefore more aid Prince Charles in his succession than for it to be a planned transfer on the retirement of his mother and her blessing on his coronation. She has broken nearly all records for time in office. She has prepared the way for the Duchess of Cornwall to become queen. Charles has reportedly committed himself to Buckingham Palace.


            What happens when Brenda goes of course, remains to be seen. I read somewhere [cannot remember where] that Brian/Charles has always been loathed by the RW press and the writer postulated the likelihood that tabloids like The Sun will conduct polls of readers suggesting he abdicates in favour of the eldest boy William.

            I do not know if it was ever shown in the USA but there was a hilarious satirical series called The Windsors - with Harry Enfield as Charles, and Kate apparently coming from gypsy stock. One hilarious scene is in Kate and Williams bedroom where he chides her for having a pile of old white goods and she quips something along the lines of "There's £20 worth of copper in that lot".

            The series first went out in 2016 [they even did a Royal Wedding special when Harry married Meghan].

            If you can find it do watch and have a laugh.

            One of my favourite lines is from Richard Goulding as Harry [a remarkable look-alike] when he is perusing the scheming Pippa's diary and laments "If only I could read"!

            Here's a short trailer [some clips might offend sensitive types] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GvHVCguMS0

            There is also a West End show based on the series. https://thewindsorsendgame.com/
            And now the word is that she has contracted Covid.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              And now the word is that she has contracted Covid.
              I hope she gets over it. I'm really not in the mood for the whole country to come to a standstill if she dies as I'm told again and again on the news how upset I am with the whole 'nation in mourning' guff. .

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                I hope she gets over it. I'm really not in the mood for the whole country to come to a standstill if she dies as I'm told again and again on the news how upset I am with the whole 'nation in mourning' guff. .
                Well she has made her 70 years and is only surpassed at present by two years and that was Louis XIV but he came to the throne as a very young child.

                I read an article back in 2017 on the plans for when she does die "London Bridge is Down". https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-london-bridge

                It sounds remarkably involved and somewhat anachronistic. It will certainly be interesting when she does go - Philip's death seemed to have been wall-to-wall special programmes and sombre music which struck me as rather OTT for the death of a very elderly very rich old man.
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  I read an article back in 2017 on the plans for when she does die "London Bridge is Down". https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-london-bridge
                  I am actually part of it, in some small way. And yes, we've planned for the event of her death for years, across several levels of the UK.

                  It sounds remarkably involved and somewhat anachronistic. It will certainly be interesting when she does go - Philip's death seemed to have been wall-to-wall special programmes and sombre music which struck me as rather OTT for the death of a very elderly very rich old man.
                  Agreed. It'll be horrendously mawkish.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                    Yes, I can't remember the last time I was proud of my country - certainly not in recent years as our elected 'leaders' have crapped themselves on the world stage. I never did understand the 'my country right or wrong' lot.

                    But then:

                    a) I'm a republican (in the 'not royalist' sense of the term)
                    b) I didn't vote for this lot, and never have
                    c) I was a remainer (I say 'was', as now we've left the word has ceased to have any meaning)

                    I don't have anything to say to correct you on, they really are a shameful bunch, but until we can kick the FPTP system to the curb there's not much I can do to change it, just watch as a minority of my country keep voting this lot in again and again at the behest of a tiny group of non-dom press barons.
                    And do not forget the Russian donors to the Tory funds.

                    I wonder if [heaven forfend] Russia does invade Ukraine if this shower in Downing Street really will frieze all those assets. We are still reading that Britain has yet to close a loophole that will ensure London real estate remains a safe haven for Russian money, and it does nothing to include various property owned via anonymous offshore structures.

                    To cap it all we now have this on top of the Panama and Paradise papers. https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...pt-politicians

                    • Massive leak reveals secret owners of £80bn held in Swiss bank
                    • Whistleblower leaked bank’s data to expose ‘immoral’ secrecy laws
                    • Clients included human trafficker and billionaire who ordered girlfriend’s murder
                    • Vatican-owned account used to spend €350m in allegedly fraudulent investment
                    • Scandal-hit Credit Suisse rejects allegations it may be ‘rogue bank

                    A massive leak from one of the world’s biggest private banks, Credit Suisse, has exposed the hidden wealth of clients involved in torture, drug trafficking, money laundering, corruption and other serious crimes.

                    Details of accounts linked to 30,000 Credit Suisse clients all over the world are contained in the leak, which unmasks the beneficiaries of more than 100bn Swiss francs (£80bn) held in one of Switzerland’s best-known financial institutions.

                    The leak points to widespread failures of due diligence by Credit Suisse, despite repeated pledges over decades to weed out dubious clients and illicit funds. The Guardian is part of a consortium of media outlets given exclusive access to the data.

                    They include a human trafficker in the Philippines, a Hong Kong stock exchange boss jailed for bribery, a billionaire who ordered the murder of his Lebanese pop star girlfriend and executives who looted Venezuela’s state oil company, as well as corrupt politicians from Egypt to Ukraine.

                    One Vatican-owned account in the data was used to spend €350m (£290m) in an allegedly fraudulent investment in London property that is at the centre of an ongoing criminal trial of several defendants, including a cardinal.

                    The huge trove of banking data was leaked by an anonymous whistleblower to the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung. “I believe that Swiss banking secrecy laws are immoral,” the whistleblower source said in a statement. “The pretext of protecting financial privacy is merely a fig leaf covering the shameful role of Swiss banks as collaborators of tax evaders.”



                    "It ain't necessarily so
                    The things that you're liable
                    To read in the Bible
                    It ain't necessarily so
                    ."

                    Sportin' Life
                    Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                      And do not forget the Russian donors to the Tory funds.

                      I wonder if [heaven forfend] Russia does invade Ukraine if this shower in Downing Street really will frieze all those assets. We are still reading that Britain has yet to close a loophole that will ensure London real estate remains a safe haven for Russian money, and it does nothing to include various property owned via anonymous offshore structures.

                      To cap it all we now have this on top of the Panama and Paradise papers. https://www.theguardian.com/news/202...pt-politicians

                      • Massive leak reveals secret owners of £80bn held in Swiss bank
                      • Whistleblower leaked bank’s data to expose ‘immoral’ secrecy laws
                      • Clients included human trafficker and billionaire who ordered girlfriend’s murder
                      • Vatican-owned account used to spend €350m in allegedly fraudulent investment
                      • Scandal-hit Credit Suisse rejects allegations it may be ‘rogue bank

                      A massive leak from one of the world’s biggest private banks, Credit Suisse, has exposed the hidden wealth of clients involved in torture, drug trafficking, money laundering, corruption and other serious crimes.

                      Details of accounts linked to 30,000 Credit Suisse clients all over the world are contained in the leak, which unmasks the beneficiaries of more than 100bn Swiss francs (£80bn) held in one of Switzerland’s best-known financial institutions.

                      The leak points to widespread failures of due diligence by Credit Suisse, despite repeated pledges over decades to weed out dubious clients and illicit funds. The Guardian is part of a consortium of media outlets given exclusive access to the data.

                      They include a human trafficker in the Philippines, a Hong Kong stock exchange boss jailed for bribery, a billionaire who ordered the murder of his Lebanese pop star girlfriend and executives who looted Venezuela’s state oil company, as well as corrupt politicians from Egypt to Ukraine.

                      One Vatican-owned account in the data was used to spend €350m (£290m) in an allegedly fraudulent investment in London property that is at the centre of an ongoing criminal trial of several defendants, including a cardinal.

                      The huge trove of banking data was leaked by an anonymous whistleblower to the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung. “I believe that Swiss banking secrecy laws are immoral,” the whistleblower source said in a statement. “The pretext of protecting financial privacy is merely a fig leaf covering the shameful role of Swiss banks as collaborators of tax evaders.”
                      Theres bound to be something I miss- I could spend ages writing up a litany of calumnies (mostly but not exclusively caused by this excremental government, as they've been in power for so many years now) and still miss something key and important.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But they have Doctor Who.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          But they have Doctor Who.
                          And Sherlock.

                          It isn't all bad. Just politically.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                            And Sherlock.

                            It isn't all bad. Just politically.
                            Well not every country can be as great as the United States of America. We are so great that even the people here who hate us won't leave.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by EvoUK View Post

                              And Sherlock.

                              It isn't all bad. Just politically.
                              Now, if you could only get them together...

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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