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The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6

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  • The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6

    The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6

    By J. Michael Luttig

    Mr. Luttig, a former judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, has been advising a number of senior Republican senators on the Electoral Count Act.

    The clear and present danger to our democracy now is that former President Donald Trump and his political allies appear prepared to exploit the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the law governing the counting of votes for president and vice president, to seize the presidency in 2024 if Mr. Trump or his anointed candidate is not elected by the American people.

    The convoluted language in the law gives Congress the power to determine the presidency if it concludes that Electoral College slates representing the winning candidate were not “lawfully certified” or “regularly given” — vague and undefined terms — regardless of whether there is proof of illegal vote tampering. After the 2020 election, Republican senators like Ted Cruz of Texas and Josh Hawley of Missouri tried to capitalize on those ambiguities in the law to do Mr. Trump’s bidding, mounting a case for overturning the results in some Biden-won states on little more than a wish. Looking ahead to the next presidential election, Mr. Trump is once again counting on a sympathetic and malleable Congress and willing states to use the Electoral Count Act to his advantage.

    He confirmed as much in a twisted admission of both his past and future intent earlier this month, claiming that congressional efforts to reform the Electoral Count Act actually prove that Mike Pence had the power to overturn the 2020 presidential election because of the alleged “irregularities.” The former vice president pushed back forcefully, calling Mr. Trump “wrong.”

    The back-and-forth repudiations by Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence lay bare two very different visions for the Republican Party. Mr. Trump and his allies insist that the 2020 election was “stolen,” a product of fraudulent voting and certifications of electors who were not properly selected. Over a year after the election, they continue to cling to these disproved allegations, claiming that these “irregularities” were all the evidence Mr. Pence needed to overturn the results, and demanding that the rest of the G.O.P. embrace their lies. The balance of the Republican Party, mystifyingly stymied by Mr. Trump, rejects these lies, but, as if they have fallen through the rabbit hole into Alice’s Wonderland, they are confused as to exactly how to move on from the 2020 election when their putative leader remains bewilderingly intent on driving the wedge between the believers in his lies and the disbelievers.

    This political fissure in the Republican Party was bound to intensify sooner or later, and now it has, presenting an existential threat to the party in 2024. If these festering divisions cost the Republicans in the midterm elections and jeopardize their chances of reclaiming the presidency in 2024, which they well could, the believers and disbelievers alike will suffer.

    While the Republicans are transfixed by their own political predicaments, and the Democrats by theirs, the right course is for both parties to set aside their partisan interests and reform the Electoral Count Act, which ought not be a partisan undertaking.

    Democrats, for their part, should regard reform of the Electoral Count Act as a victory — essential to shore up our faltering democracy and to prevent another attack like the one at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. These are actually the worthiest of objectives.

    Republicans should want to reform the law for these same reasons, and more. Of course, some may never support reform of the Electoral Count Act simply because the former president has voiced his opposition to the efforts to revise it. But there are consequential reasons of constitutional and political principle for the large remainder of Republicans to favor reform in spite of the former president’s opposition.

    Republicans are proponents of limited federal government. They oppose aggregation of power in Washington and want it dispersed to the states. It should be anathema to them that Congress has the power to overturn the will of the American people in an election that, by constitutional prescription, is administered by the states, not Washington. If the Democrats are willing to divest themselves of the power to decide the presidency that the 49th Congress wrongly assumed 135 years ago, then it would be the height of political hypocrisy for the Republicans to refuse to divest theirs.

    Constitutional conservatives, especially, should want Electoral Count Act reform, because they should be the first to understand that the law is plainly unconstitutional. Nothing in the Constitution empowers Congress to decide the validity of the electoral slates submitted by the states. In fact, the Constitution gives Congress no role whatsoever in choosing the president, save in the circumstance where no presidential candidate receives a majority of the electoral votes cast.

    Trump acolytes like Mr. Cruz and Mr. Hawley should appreciate the need to reform this unconstitutional law. They are also politically smart enough to understand that however likely it is that the Republican presidential candidate will lose in 2024, it is just as likely that he or she will win. Attempts to time reform based on handicapping the quadrennial presidential election are futile, and no Republican should want to be an accessory to any successful attempt to overturn the next election — including an effort by Democrats to exploit the law.

    If the Republicans want to prevent the Electoral Count Act from being exploited in 2024, several fundamental reforms are needed. First, Congress should formally give the federal courts, up to and including the Supreme Court, the power to resolve disputes over state electors and to ensure compliance with the established procedures for selecting presidential electors — and require the judiciary’s expeditious resolution of these disputes. Congress should then require itself to count the votes of electors that the federal courts have determined to be properly certified under state law.

    Congress should also increase the number of members required both to voice an objection and to sustain one to as high a number as politically palatable. At the moment, only one member of each chamber is necessary to send an objection to the Senate and House for debate and resolution — an exceedingly low threshold that proved a deadly disservice to the country and the American people during the last election.

    Currently, Congress has the power under Article II and the Necessary and Proper Clause to prevent states from changing the manner by which their electors are appointed after the election, but it has not clearly exercised that authority to prevent such postelection changes. It should do so.

    Finally, the vice president’s important, but largely ministerial, role in the joint session where the electoral votes are counted should once and for all be clarified.

    It is hardly overstatement to say that the future of our democracy depends on reform of the Electoral Count Act. Republicans and Democrats need to put aside their partisan differences long enough to fix this law before it enables the political equivalent of a civil war three years hence. The law is offensive to Republicans in constitutional and political principle, officiously aggrandizing unto Congress the constitutional prerogatives of the states. It is offensive to Democrats because it legislatively epitomizes a profound threat in waiting to America’s democracy. The needed changes, which would meet the political objections of both parties, should command broad bipartisan support in any responsible Congress. For Republicans in particular, these changes are idiomatic sleeves off their vests.

    Come to think of it, the only members in Congress who might not want to reform this menacing law are those planning its imminent exploitation to overturn the next presidential election.

  • #2
    I've been saying it for quite a while, but it's a truth that bears repeating. Trump is a danger to the Republican Party; he's a bigger danger to the Conservative movement; a clear and present danger to democracy in America itself; and to liberal — in the classical sense, anti-monarchist and anti-dictator — democracies around the world.

    Luttig was an HW appointee, as solidly conservative as it gets. I know this site is populated by an unsettling proportion of Bircher Society-style "conservatives" who may take issue with that. None of whom, it bears noting, unlike Luttig, who have ever been acknowledged as conservatives by any meaningful authority, for instance, a Republican president of the United States.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
      I've been saying it for quite a while, but it's a truth that bears repeating. Trump is a danger to the Republican Party; he's a bigger danger to the Conservative movement; a clear and present danger to democracy in America itself; and to liberal — in the classical sense, anti-monarchist and anti-dictator — democracies around the world.
      You paranoid anti-Trump nutters are hilarious.

      The question you should be asking: Why is Washington DC so afraid of President Trump?

      As for your OP, it makes a good argument for securing our elections and ensuring that they are conducted with the highest standards of integrity so that the vote counts are never in question. Of course Democrats have fought like cornered rats against any such provision and even tried to force through legislation that would have given them an open license to cheat at will.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • #4
        The Democrats have been trying to find a way to actually eliminate the Electoral college. This sounds like just another excuse to do so.

        Soon we will see democrats saying "We have to eliminate the electoral college so Trump can't abuse it!!!" or something to that nature.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The Democrats have been trying to find a way to actually eliminate the Electoral college. This sounds like just another excuse to do so.

          Soon we will see democrats saying "We have to eliminate the electoral college so Trump can't abuse it!!!" or something to that nature.
          We had to destroy the village in order to save it [from OMB].

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            We had to destroy the village in order to save it [from OMB].
            Or from The Dark Knight:

            "How did you stop the bandit, Alfred?"
            "We burned the forest."
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
              The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6

              By J. Michael Luttig

              Mr. Luttig, a former judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, has been advising a number of senior Republican senators on the Electoral Count Act.

              The clear and present danger to our democracy now is that former President Donald Trump and his political allies appear prepared to exploit the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the law governing the counting of votes for president and vice president, to seize the presidency in 2024 if Mr. Trump or his anointed candidate is not elected by the American people.

              The convoluted language in the law gives Congress the power to determine the presidency if it concludes that Electoral College slates representing the winning candidate were not “lawfully certified” or “regularly given” — vague and undefined terms — regardless of whether there is proof of illegal vote tampering. After the 2020 election, Republican senators like Ted Cruz of Texas and Josh Hawley of Missouri tried to capitalize on those ambiguities in the law to do Mr. Trump’s bidding, mounting a case for overturning the results in some Biden-won states on little more than a wish. Looking ahead to the next presidential election, Mr. Trump is once again counting on a sympathetic and malleable Congress and willing states to use the Electoral Count Act to his advantage.

              He confirmed as much in a twisted admission of both his past and future intent earlier this month, claiming that congressional efforts to reform the Electoral Count Act actually prove that Mike Pence had the power to overturn the 2020 presidential election because of the alleged “irregularities.” The former vice president pushed back forcefully, calling Mr. Trump “wrong.”

              The back-and-forth repudiations by Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence lay bare two very different visions for the Republican Party. Mr. Trump and his allies insist that the 2020 election was “stolen,” a product of fraudulent voting and certifications of electors who were not properly selected. Over a year after the election, they continue to cling to these disproved allegations, claiming that these “irregularities” were all the evidence Mr. Pence needed to overturn the results, and demanding that the rest of the G.O.P. embrace their lies. The balance of the Republican Party, mystifyingly stymied by Mr. Trump, rejects these lies, but, as if they have fallen through the rabbit hole into Alice’s Wonderland, they are confused as to exactly how to move on from the 2020 election when their putative leader remains bewilderingly intent on driving the wedge between the believers in his lies and the disbelievers.

              This political fissure in the Republican Party was bound to intensify sooner or later, and now it has, presenting an existential threat to the party in 2024. If these festering divisions cost the Republicans in the midterm elections and jeopardize their chances of reclaiming the presidency in 2024, which they well could, the believers and disbelievers alike will suffer.

              While the Republicans are transfixed by their own political predicaments, and the Democrats by theirs, the right course is for both parties to set aside their partisan interests and reform the Electoral Count Act, which ought not be a partisan undertaking.

              Democrats, for their part, should regard reform of the Electoral Count Act as a victory — essential to shore up our faltering democracy and to prevent another attack like the one at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. These are actually the worthiest of objectives.

              Republicans should want to reform the law for these same reasons, and more. Of course, some may never support reform of the Electoral Count Act simply because the former president has voiced his opposition to the efforts to revise it. But there are consequential reasons of constitutional and political principle for the large remainder of Republicans to favor reform in spite of the former president’s opposition.

              Republicans are proponents of limited federal government. They oppose aggregation of power in Washington and want it dispersed to the states. It should be anathema to them that Congress has the power to overturn the will of the American people in an election that, by constitutional prescription, is administered by the states, not Washington. If the Democrats are willing to divest themselves of the power to decide the presidency that the 49th Congress wrongly assumed 135 years ago, then it would be the height of political hypocrisy for the Republicans to refuse to divest theirs.

              Constitutional conservatives, especially, should want Electoral Count Act reform, because they should be the first to understand that the law is plainly unconstitutional. Nothing in the Constitution empowers Congress to decide the validity of the electoral slates submitted by the states. In fact, the Constitution gives Congress no role whatsoever in choosing the president, save in the circumstance where no presidential candidate receives a majority of the electoral votes cast.

              Trump acolytes like Mr. Cruz and Mr. Hawley should appreciate the need to reform this unconstitutional law. They are also politically smart enough to understand that however likely it is that the Republican presidential candidate will lose in 2024, it is just as likely that he or she will win. Attempts to time reform based on handicapping the quadrennial presidential election are futile, and no Republican should want to be an accessory to any successful attempt to overturn the next election — including an effort by Democrats to exploit the law.

              If the Republicans want to prevent the Electoral Count Act from being exploited in 2024, several fundamental reforms are needed. First, Congress should formally give the federal courts, up to and including the Supreme Court, the power to resolve disputes over state electors and to ensure compliance with the established procedures for selecting presidential electors — and require the judiciary’s expeditious resolution of these disputes. Congress should then require itself to count the votes of electors that the federal courts have determined to be properly certified under state law.

              Congress should also increase the number of members required both to voice an objection and to sustain one to as high a number as politically palatable. At the moment, only one member of each chamber is necessary to send an objection to the Senate and House for debate and resolution — an exceedingly low threshold that proved a deadly disservice to the country and the American people during the last election.

              Currently, Congress has the power under Article II and the Necessary and Proper Clause to prevent states from changing the manner by which their electors are appointed after the election, but it has not clearly exercised that authority to prevent such postelection changes. It should do so.

              Finally, the vice president’s important, but largely ministerial, role in the joint session where the electoral votes are counted should once and for all be clarified.

              It is hardly overstatement to say that the future of our democracy depends on reform of the Electoral Count Act. Republicans and Democrats need to put aside their partisan differences long enough to fix this law before it enables the political equivalent of a civil war three years hence. The law is offensive to Republicans in constitutional and political principle, officiously aggrandizing unto Congress the constitutional prerogatives of the states. It is offensive to Democrats because it legislatively epitomizes a profound threat in waiting to America’s democracy. The needed changes, which would meet the political objections of both parties, should command broad bipartisan support in any responsible Congress. For Republicans in particular, these changes are idiomatic sleeves off their vests.

              Come to think of it, the only members in Congress who might not want to reform this menacing law are those planning its imminent exploitation to overturn the next presidential election.
              Hate to break it to your boy there, but Republicans in Congress didn't do anything different than what Democrats tried to do in 2016 wrt challenging electors, etc.. IN FACT, Democrats objected to the results of more states in 2016 during certification, than Republicans did in 2020

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                I've been saying it for quite a while, but it's a truth that bears repeating. Trump is a danger to the Republican Party; he's a bigger danger to the Conservative movement; a clear and present danger to democracy in America itself; and to liberal — in the classical sense, anti-monarchist and anti-dictator — democracies around the world.

                Luttig was an HW appointee, as solidly conservative as it gets. I know this site is populated by an unsettling proportion of Bircher Society-style "conservatives" who may take issue with that. None of whom, it bears noting, unlike Luttig, who have ever been acknowledged as conservatives by any meaningful authority, for instance, a Republican president of the United States.
                Did you say that when Democrats similarly gave objections during the 2016 certification of votes (objections to MORE states than Republicans objected to in 2020)? And did you say the same thing during the summer of fire in 2020?

                Don't worry, I already know the answer.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  Or from The Dark Knight:

                  "How did you stop the bandit, Alfred?"
                  "We burned the forest."
                  The most efficient method for finding a needle in a haystack. Just sift the ashes with a magnet.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                    Did you say that when Democrats similarly gave objections during the 2016 certification of votes (objections to MORE states than Republicans objected to in 2020)? And did you say the same thing during the summer of fire in 2020?

                    Don't worry, I already know the answer.
                    Where is the Democrat led insurrection in 2017? And legal objections are not a problem. But ILLEGALLY sending false electors, or inciting and reveling in an insurrection in the capitol because your VP didn't turn out to be the stooge you thought he was, now that IS a problem.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                      Where is the Democrat led insurrection in 2017?
                      It happened in 2016, with Hillary hiring hackers to make up connections to Russia (and continuing to have htem hack the Trump white house later on when he took office).

                      And legal objections are not a problem.
                      Your boy stated otherwise.

                      But ILLEGALLY sending false electors, or inciting and reveling in an insurrection in the capitol because your VP didn't turn out to be the stooge you thought he was, now that IS a problem.
                      No one sent false lectors.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        You paranoid anti-Trump nutters are hilarious.
                        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
                        Luttig was an HW appointee, as solidly conservative as it gets. I know this site is populated by an unsettling proportion of Bircher Society-style "conservatives" who may take issue with that.
                        Thank you for your thoughts.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                          Don't worry, I already know the answer.
                          I am an equal opportunity critic of extremists from any side of the spectrum. On this site, that means most of the snowflakes I melt flurry from the right fringe.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                            I am an equal opportunity critic of extremists from any side of the spectrum. On this site, that means most of the snowflakes I melt flurry from the right fringe.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              The Democrats have been trying to find a way to actually eliminate the Electoral college. This sounds like just another excuse to do so.

                              Soon we will see democrats saying "We have to eliminate the electoral college so Trump can't abuse it!!!" or something to that nature.
                              The day you actually read one of my o/p’s before responding I’ll be billing you for the surgery to reset my jaw from its strike against the floor. If I were you, I’d pay the bill and frame it on your wall as a token of your first real victory against the Jerk™.

                              The o/p is about the Electoral Count Act, not the Electoral College.

                              I’m aware of arguments for eliminating the electoral college, but they have nothing to do with this thread or the o/p, which reinforces the bipartisan nature of calls for reforming the ECA coming from across the spectrum. In particular, Luttig includes provisions to make it more difficult to register objections to electors such as those which occurred in the last two cycles.

                              More specifically, it would close the acknowledged ambiguities the former president and his advisors attempt to seize upon — and which the former president continues to claim should have been exploited — to allow the vice president to unilaterally reject the results of the former president’s lost election.

                              That is the “clear and present danger” addressed by Luttig in the o/p.

                              Allow me to recommend you read it before responding again.

                              Comment

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