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World War Three?

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  • Originally posted by seanD View Post

    It shouldn't be cash aid, it should have been weapons and supplies, but this should have happened before the war ever started when they knew Russia was deploying troops at the border spring of last year. But, as you pointed out, for some strange reason, Biden admin obstructed that plan. Now it's too late. The cash will likely just end up in the hands of corrupt Ukrainian officials right before they flee the country at the end. Moreover (though I don't really care, since it just hurts the democrats politically), it just looks bad to Americans giving all this cash aid to corrupt Ukrainian officials (and I'm sure we'll find this out at the end of the conflict and the dust settles) when their own country is in economic dire straits.
    The other problem is that not all of the money is going to Ukraine, it's going to other NATO countries to prop up their economies while our own is collapsing, and the money that is making it into Ukraine, we have no idea how it's really being spent. By most accounts, it's going into the pockets of the politicians rather than being used to help the people.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • Originally posted by seanD View Post

      About $10 or so billion is cash aid. That's a nice chunk for a corrupt official. I believe Hamid Karzai ran off with mere millions, or as much as he could carry on his person.
      So less than a third, if we take you at your Russian word.

      I don't see the problem with providing various forms of aid (even some cash aid), given the promises we made to Ukraine and what is being done to them by Russia.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

        So less than a third, if we take you at your Russian word.

        I don't see the problem with providing various forms of aid (even some cash aid), given the promises we made to Ukraine and what is being done to them by Russia.
        I've always been against cash aid to foreign countries because I don't at all trust there's any sort of trustworthy accountability, as we found out in Afghanistan. But I've always been consistent with that stance, including aid we send to Israel. I'm just pointing it now because I'm trying to figure out the Biden admin mid-term strategy, and the fact it looks exceptionally bad to the voters in the midst of our own economic crisis and the fact it's pretty much a pointless cause at this point.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

          So less than a third, if we take you at your Russian word.

          I don't see the problem with providing various forms of aid (even some cash aid), given the promises we made to Ukraine and what is being done to them by Russia.
          Material goods like food, clothing, medical supplies, and construction materials would have a much better chance of actually helping the people than no-strings cash handed to corrupt politicians.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

            Material goods like food, clothing, medical supplies, and construction materials would have a much better chance of actually helping the people than no-strings cash handed to corrupt politicians.
            We already have been, Vlad's personal proctologist.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

              We already have been, Vlad's personal proctologist.
              And that $10 billion in no-strings cash is, what, grease money for the politicians?
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                And that $10 billion in no-strings cash is, what, grease money for the politicians?
                Another evidenceless claim using that number by one of Putin's drones on the forum. (hint: that makes it less believable).

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                  Another evidenceless claim using that number by one of Putin's drones on the forum. (hint: that makes it less believable).
                  Sorry, but you're the one who apparently knows where to find Russian propaganda. I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin looking for that sort of thing.

                  At any rate, Zelinsky has asked for cash specifically to pay for his politicians' salaries and pensions, and Treasury Secretary Yellen says she is prepared to ask Congress to start funding Ukraine's government.

                  "The needs of Ukraine are urgent, and we plan to deploy this direct aid to Ukraine as soon as possible to be used on most urgent needs," Yellen said.

                  "We know this is only the beginning of what Ukraine will need to rebuild. And I'm committed to working with Congress and with our international allies and partners to build on this support in the medium and long term."

                  https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...campaign=cppst

                  "Direct aid" means cash. I'm curious if the plan is to deliver it on pallets to an airport in the dead of night. That seems to be the preferred method of paying off foreign governments.

                  I keep trying to tell you, man, there are no good guys in this fight.
                  Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                  But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                  Than a fool in the eyes of God


                  From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                    Sorry, but you're the one who apparently knows where to find Russian propaganda. I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin looking for that sort of thing.

                    At any rate, Zelinsky has asked for cash specifically to pay for his politicians' salaries and pensions, and Treasury Secretary Yellen says she is prepared to ask Congress to start funding Ukraine's government.

                    "The needs of Ukraine are urgent, and we plan to deploy this direct aid to Ukraine as soon as possible to be used on most urgent needs," Yellen said.

                    "We know this is only the beginning of what Ukraine will need to rebuild. And I'm committed to working with Congress and with our international allies and partners to build on this support in the medium and long term."

                    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...campaign=cppst

                    "Direct aid" means cash. I'm curious if the plan is to deliver it on pallets to an airport in the dead of night. That seems to be the preferred method of paying off foreign governments.

                    I keep trying to tell you, man, there are no good guys in this fight.
                    So you can't support the number you and your fellow Putin proctologist claimed. No surprise there.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                      Yes how dare we send aid to a country Russia is trying to massacre (who have held off over a month of Russian advances).

                      A country foolish enough to believe our promises we agreed to in order for them to give up their nuclear weapons.

                      Hilarious, right, anyone believing US agreements or promises, expecting us to keep to our word? Thats what little Kremlinites like you want, isnt it?
                      Unfortunately, the U.S. already has a long history of abandoning friends and allies to their fates (particularly during Democrat Administrations). Say what you will about the Russians but they will never kick an ally to the curb.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Unfortunately, the U.S. already has a long history of abandoning friends and allies to their fates (particularly during Democrat Administrations). Say what you will about the Russians but they will never kick an ally to the curb.
                        True, though we've gotten worse wrt not keeping our word in recent years - and it's not been solely one party - including under Trump (the Iran agreement, the Paris agreement whether you agreed with entering it or not, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, Trans-Pacific Partnership, etc..)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                          True, though we've gotten worse wrt not keeping our word in recent years - and it's not been solely one party - including under Trump (the Iran agreement, the Paris agreement whether you agreed with entering it or not, Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty, Trans-Pacific Partnership, etc..)
                          I was specifically referring to promises of supporting an ally only to cut them loose and let them sink.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Unfortunately, the U.S. already has a long history of abandoning friends and allies to their fates (particularly during Democrat Administrations). Say what you will about the Russians but they will never kick an ally to the curb.
                            Interesting. You got me trying to think of a case where Russia abandoned an ally. I can't think of any, but its situation is quite a bit different than the US.

                            For one, Putin has been running the show there for 23 years. Unlike proper democracies where administrations change with significantly different goals, Russia has remained static. Also, Russia's allies are far fewer, and therefore far more valuable. Belarus, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela and Syria all offer advantages to Russia that it can't get anywhere else (hmmm, can we count all of Russia's allies on one hand?).

                            IMO, some of the US abandoned "allies" in the past have been despots that never should have been allies to begin with.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                              Interesting. You got me trying to think of a case where Russia abandoned an ally. I can't think of any, but its situation is quite a bit different than the US.

                              For one, Putin has been running the show there for 23 years. Unlike proper democracies where administrations change with significantly different goals, Russia has remained static. Also, Russia's allies are far fewer, and therefore far more valuable. Belarus, Iran, Cuba, Venezuela and Syria all offer advantages to Russia that it can't get anywhere else (hmmm, can we count all of Russia's allies on one hand?).

                              IMO, some of the US abandoned "allies" in the past have been despots that never should have been allies to begin with.
                              Yeah, many were shady characters to say the least but if I was the leader of a foreign country I wouldn't trust America to have my back when I needed help.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                Yeah, many were shady characters to say the least but if I was the leader of a foreign country I wouldn't trust America to have my back when I needed help.
                                That is a significant problem. Poland is a good example. It votes with the US on nearly everything at the UN, always pays lip service to the US, always seeks greater ties with the US ... but it is situated in a very bad location. So, on one hand I would welcome all of its support, but (except for its NATO status) it is primed for neglect, if not abandonment.

                                The US should also be careful about the many one-sided relationships it fosters, creating allies through financing because of short-term goals. Solid allies are the ones that offer something substantial and timeless in return.

                                Comment

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