World War Three?

[Mountain Man]

Looks like Joe is trying to force Eastern Ukraine to not deal peacefully with Russia by slapping East Ukraine (not Russia!) with crippling sanctions if they dare to cooperate with Putin.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...k-and-luhansk/

It is painfully obvious that Joe and the Democrats desperately want a war to happen between Russia and Ukraine, and they're doing everything they can to make it happen

[Ronson]

Looks like Joe is trying to force Eastern Ukraine to not deal peacefully with Russia by slapping East Ukraine (not Russia!) with crippling sanctions if they dare to cooperate with Putin.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com...k-and-luhansk/

It is painfully obvious that Joe and the Democrats desperately want a war to happen between Russia and Ukraine, and they're doing everything they can to make it happen

Wow, what a silly move. He is completely lost on how massive sanctions and isolation on Cuba did nothing, and they were more connected to the US at the beginning. East Ukraine sanctioned by Biden? Putin is no doubt laughing at the tottering fool.

ETA: Actually, the article says these sanctions are directed against east Ukraine and not Russia? Hmmm. Could be that Biden is acting; making it appear he's doing something while doing nothing toward Putin. Sure smacks of collusion.

[Mountain Man]

Wow, what a silly move. He is completely lost on how massive sanctions and isolation on Cuba did nothing, and they were more connected to the US at the beginning. East Ukraine sanctioned by Biden? Putin is no doubt laughing at the tottering fool.

ETA: Actually, the article says these sanctions are directed against east Ukraine and not Russia? Hmmm. Could be that Biden is acting; making it appear he's doing something while doing nothing toward Putin. Sure smacks of collusion.

As I said, I believe Joe is trying to force Eastern Ukraine to not cooperate with Russia in order to instigate military conflict. It's the only reason I can think of that he would target Ukraine and not Russia with sanctions.

[Sparko]

The latest is that Putin is claiming that two areas with some separatists are "independent regions" and Russia is sending in "peacekeepers" to help them.
Germany is holding off on certifying the Nord Stream 2 pipeline until Russia leaves Ukraine alone.

I think Biden should tell Putin, Hey if you can annex Ukraine because you are worried about a potentially hostile nation on your border, we will annex Cuba.

[Ronson]

As I said, I believe Joe is trying to force Eastern Ukraine to not cooperate with Russia in order to instigate military conflict. It's the only reason I can think of that he would target Ukraine and not Russia with sanctions.

But another reason Biden would target east Ukraine - and not Russia - is a smokescreen. Sanctioning east Ukraine does absolutely nothing. I doubt they have much connection to the US, and Russia can supply them with everything they need anyway.

My question would be: "Why aren't you sanctioning Putin?" He's the one with ties to the west. He's the multi-multi billionaire with money in our banks. East Ukraine is a poor, worthless region. Do a Google-map street level look at Donetsk. The place is a ghetto. They have no money in US banks. The only value that area has is to be a broad highway for Putin to get in-and-out of Crimea.

[Mountain Man]

But another reason Biden would target east Ukraine - and not Russia - is a smokescreen. Sanctioning east Ukraine does absolutely nothing. I doubt they have much connection to the US, and Russia can supply them with everything they need anyway.

My question would be: "Why aren't you sanctioning Putin?" He's the one with ties to the west. He's the multi-multi billionaire with money in our banks. East Ukraine is a poor, worthless region. Do a Google-map street level look at Donetsk. The place is a ghetto. They have no money in US banks. The only value that area has is to be a broad highway for Putin to get in-and-out of Crimea.

From the source I referenced earlier:

Anyone from inside this DNR/LNR region of Ukraine is now blocked from any access to the U.S. financial system, banned from travel to the United States, and all U.S. assets and property of Ukrainian citizens in the disputed region are now frozen.

That's a pretty heavy boot to put on the backs of innocent Ukrainian citizens.

[rogue06]

I don't see it. The Baltic States are part of NATO (which Putin obviously respects or he wouldn't be making such a big deal out of it in regard to Ukraine) and he hasn't made much noise about the Baltics in the past.

IIRC, only a small section of east Latvia has a sizeable Russian population, and they've been quiet.

Also, Putin is now claiming that Ukraine should never have been given "nation" status because it was never a successful nation on its own (which is baloney). He can't make the same claim about the Baltics.

I'm sure he is losing a whole lot of respect for NATO right now.

IIRC, Latvia is reporting that Russia has begun engaging in the same sort of destabilization policies directed at them that they've had in place against Ukraine. That has led to a sharp rise in the number of people joining their equivalent to the National Guard (up over 11% since December). They're worried that NATO will stand by and watch especially as Western Europe becomes increasingly dependent on Russian fuel, a dependence which will only increase thanks to old Joe removing sanctions against their pipeline (while shutting down ours and returning us to being dependent on the sheiks, mullahs and folks like Putin again).

And the Latvians, who only represent half of the people in the country, are definitely concerned with the 39% native Russian-speaking population inside their borders and how they get all of their information from Moscow news channels. FWIU, well over a quarter of Estonia's population is ethnically Russia whereas in contrast it is Lithuania that actually has a small ethnic Russian population (between 5 and 10%).

Alexander Nevzorov, a retired popular Russian journalist as well as being a and a former member of the Russian Parliament, and known for his hawkish views (sided with those who conducted the coup against Gorbachev, and was a big time supporter of the Chechen Wars) recently said:

Russian media is full with information about how our neighbors should fear us, how we can turn the world into a nuclear graveyard full of ash, how our military can conquer them in less than a day, how we should restore the borders of if not USSR then definitely the Russian Empire, how it all belongs to Mother Russia—and then we’re surprised when our neighbors actually listen and believe us and take this into consideration and protest.

Btw, Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine, Britain and the U.S. to respect the borders of Ukraine. Seems like that was hardly a speedbump for his ambitions.

[rogue06]

The latest is that Putin is claiming that two areas with some separatists are "independent regions" and Russia is sending in "peacekeepers" to help them.
Germany is holding off on certifying the Nord Stream 2 pipeline until Russia leaves Ukraine alone.

I think Biden should tell Putin, Hey if you can annex Ukraine because you are worried about a potentially hostile nation on your border, we will annex Cuba.

I figure that Putin would grin like the Cheshire cat, extend his hand and say "deal."

[Ronson]

I'm sure he is losing a whole lot of respect for NATO right now.

IIRC, Latvia is reporting that Russia has begun engaging in the same sort of destabilization policies directed at them that they've had in place against Ukraine. That has led to a sharp rise in the number of people joining their equivalent to the National Guard (up over 11% since December). They're worried that NATO will stand by and watch especially as Western Europe becomes increasingly dependent on Russian fuel, a dependence which will only increase thanks to old Joe removing sanctions against their pipeline (while shutting down ours and returning us to being dependent on the sheiks, mullahs and folks like Putin again).

And the Latvians, who only represent half of the people in the country, are definitely concerned with the 39% native Russian-speaking population inside their borders and how they get all of their information from Moscow news channels. FWIU, well over a quarter of Estonia's population is ethnically Russia whereas in contrast it is Lithuania that actually has a small ethnic Russian population (between 5 and 10%).

Alexander Nevzorov, a retired popular Russian journalist as well as being a and a former member of the Russian Parliament, and known for his hawkish views (sided with those who conducted the coup against Gorbachev, and was a big time supporter of the Chechen Wars) recently said:

Russian media is full with information about how our neighbors should fear us, how we can turn the world into a nuclear graveyard full of ash, how our military can conquer them in less than a day, how we should restore the borders of if not USSR then definitely the Russian Empire, how it all belongs to Mother Russia—and then we’re surprised when our neighbors actually listen and believe us and take this into consideration and protest.

We'll see. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I just see the Baltics as a totally different situation and Putin would think they're more trouble than they're worth. It might be different if Putin could justify occupation all the way to the Baltic Sea (so he could get their ports) but any sizeable sympathetic Russian population is inland near Russia. Nothing really to gain there. But I am sure that nothing is going to happen there in the near term.

Btw, Russia signed a treaty with Ukraine, Britain and the U.S. to respect the borders of Ukraine. Seems like that was hardly a speedbump for his ambitions.

I doubt Putin would test NATO. I think that's why he's moving on Ukraine because they seemed destined to join - but right now, they have no defense treaties. This may be his last opportunity; while wimpy Biden is in office and before Ukraine is admitted to NATO.

[seanD]

That explains Biden's focus, but not the rest of Europe and the MSM focusing on it.

From the media perspective, I see it more as dogpiling and ratings. They analyze this stuff to death to see what news topics get the most clicks. Ukraine is the winner now that the convoy has left Ottawa. Europe is uneasy because Russia is so close and Putin is a threatening figure.

I just to don't see any other explanation for the Biden admin's ridiculous war hysteria in the build-up to all this, including claims of a false flag with crisis actors, yet ignoring it for almost a year as it was happening. The timing is a little too convenient for them.

And EU has always toted the US line when it comes to military conflict. In fact, I don't remember a single conflict EU criticized the US for at the time it was happening, including the Iraq war. However, if you notice, that trend has sort of changed. Some top EU countries weren't exactly crazy about US/Russia provocation, especially Germany. Macron went to great pains to try and ease tensions with his own diplomacy. I see it as EU just tagging along like they normally do, recognizing their inferior place, only not as enthusiastically as in the past.

[Esther]

I wonder what would happen should the Ukraine simply passively submit themselves to Russian rule. What would be so bad about that? Surely lives and a lot of misery would be spared and they can just carry on business as usual without the constant threat because they have surrendered?

[rogue06]

We'll see. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but I just see the Baltics as a totally different situation and Putin would think they're more trouble than they're worth. It might be different if Putin could justify occupation all the way to the Baltic Sea (so he could get their ports) but any sizeable sympathetic Russian population is inland near Russia. Nothing really to gain there. But I am sure that nothing is going to happen there in the near term.



I doubt Putin would test NATO. I think that's why he's moving on Ukraine because they seemed destined to join - but right now, they have no defense treaties. This may be his last opportunity; while wimpy Biden is in office and before Ukraine is admitted to NATO.

Much will depend on how the West, and especially old Joe, respond to the invasion of Ukraine -- and probably who is in the White House when the opportunity presents itself.

[rogue06]

I wonder what would happen should the Ukraine simply passively submit themselves to Russian rule. What would be so bad about that? Surely lives and a lot of misery would be spared and they can just carry on business as usual without the constant threat because they have surrendered?

Freedom is one of the things worth fighting for.

[Ronson]

I wonder what would happen should the Ukraine simply passively submit themselves to Russian rule. What would be so bad about that? Surely lives and a lot of misery would be spared and they can just carry on business as usual without the constant threat because they have surrendered?

If I was a Ukrainian, I wouldn't want a distant Moscow ruling my country. For the same reason American colonies revolted against King George.

Besides, I doubt Putin is interested in all of Ukraine. He wants the eastern portion that makes a good pathway to Crimea.

[Sparko]

We should invite Russia to join NATO.