Tiny AL Town Is Growing Its Police Force By Fining Everyone In Sight

[Sparko]

They need to go after not only the police chief, but the mayor. The police could not have gotten away with this without approval from the mayor.

[myth]

I have a device in my car that helps me go through speed traps without getting caught. I have never been stopped.

I used to think those were super helpful. Then I learned how to run radar in a police vehicle, and I realized they're really not that helpful. All that's needed for me to defeat your device is hit the hold button and not initiate a radar broadcast until I've already visually clocked your speed. After I turn it on and your alarm goes off, causing you to brake, I've already locked your speed. I speed frequently, don't have a radar detector, and I've also never been stopped for speeding. Using my head to decide what's reasonable has been enough to prevent me from getting pulled over.

Not to mention that LIDAR is a whole different thing.

[myth]

The tiny town of Brookside Alabama has figured out a nice easy hack to explode their income to absurd levels: get the police to fine literally everyone, and straight up make up violations to fine people for. It's gotten to a point that cops now have to direct traffic around the town's courthouse to direct the thousands of people coming in to pay or fight their fines.]

I've seen articles like this from time to time. The last one I recall was a small town in AL that hired a prodigious interdiction officer to work the small section of interstate that went through their town. They were using asset forfeiture to supplement the police budget and the prosecutor office's budget. They had a premade form for people to sign over their assets (like bundles of cash) in exchange for not being prosecuted. So you had people getting stopped with cash on hand planning to buy a used car, who have their cash seized and then they get pressured by a prosecutor to waive their rights to try claiming the property, in exchange for not being charged with a barely tangential crime that they were in fact never charged with, or really even suspected of.

The key problem seems to arise when small local governments receive a direct increase in their own budget for some sort of 'enforcement' action that is easily repeatable. It seems to start with good intentions, but pretty soon you've got to maintain high citation frequencies to keep your budget. Then pressure is applied to individual officers to maintain that citation rate, even if there's not a clearly defined number. Apply enough pressure, and now people are in fear of keeping their jobs and make questionable decisions (think of Wells Fargo and their big scandal).

I'm glad I live in a state that does not permit asset forfeiture pre-conviction, nor does my local government get any sort of money for the fines from citations issued. I do think that something like a few pennies from each citation go into an aggregate retirement fund for cops (don't quote me on that, I'm not sure) but it's not tracked in any way, nor does writing more citations directly correlate to more retirement money (at least not in any practical sense) for individual officers.

[Faber]

I used to think those were super helpful. Then I learned how to run radar in a police vehicle, and I realized they're really not that helpful. All that's needed for me to defeat your device is hit the hold button and not initiate a radar broadcast until I've already visually clocked your speed. After I turn it on and your alarm goes off, causing you to brake, I've already locked your speed. I speed frequently, don't have a radar detector, and I've also never been stopped for speeding. Using my head to decide what's reasonable has been enough to prevent me from getting pulled over.

Not to mention that LIDAR is a whole different thing.

Actually, I have three devices. The other two are on the floor under the dash board.

[myth]

Actually, I have three devices. The other two are on the floor under the dash board.

What are they? Just curious if they shield your vehicle from radar and lidar.

[Faber]

What are they? Just curious if they shield your vehicle from radar and lidar.

speedometer, gas pedal and brake.

[Cow Poke]

I used to think those were super helpful. Then I learned how to run radar in a police vehicle, and I realized they're really not that helpful. All that's needed for me to defeat your device is hit the hold button and not initiate a radar broadcast until I've already visually clocked your speed. After I turn it on and your alarm goes off, causing you to brake, I've already locked your speed. I speed frequently, don't have a radar detector, and I've also never been stopped for speeding. Using my head to decide what's reasonable has been enough to prevent me from getting pulled over.

Not to mention that LIDAR is a whole different thing.

Remember, it's called RADAR (spelled the same forward or backward) because it will get you coming or going!

When I was BabyCop way back when, we got our first radar gun (had to document calibrating it at the beginning of every shift with a tuning fork), there was quite a furor in town, and because of public pressure, our Safety Director ordered that all police running radar from a police vehicle had to be clearly visible by the public, and must have 2 wheels of the police vehicle touching the pavement of the road.

radar gun.jpg

[Cow Poke]

Remember, it's called RADAR (spelled the same forward or backward) because it will get you coming or going!

When I was BabyCop way back when, we got our first radar gun (had to document calibrating it at the beginning of every shift with a tuning fork), there was quite a furor in town, and because of public pressure, our Safety Director ordered that all police running radar from a police vehicle had to be clearly visible by the public, and must have 2 wheels of the police vehicle touching the pavement of the road.

radar gun.jpg

By the way, that "two wheels on the pavement" policy died when a City Dump Truck plowed into the back of a City Police Vehicle.

Since he had to have "two wheels on the pavement", John parked his patrol unit just over a hill on the side of the road. Somebody coming from the other way (oncoming traffic) saw the police vehicle, and did a panic slow down, swerving into the oncoming lane, causing the dump truck to veer toward the shoulder --- KAPLOWIE!!!!

ETA: And ANOTHER "by the way" --- back then, our department wasn't certified to run "moving radar" - it was strictly stationary - you parked and let them come to you.

[myth]

speedometer, gas pedal and brake.

I've met a lot of people who only know what two of those three are.

[myth]

Remember, it's called RADAR (spelled the same forward or backward) because it will get you coming or going!

When I was BabyCop way back when, we got our first radar gun (had to document calibrating it at the beginning of every shift with a tuning fork), there was quite a furor in town, and because of public pressure, our Safety Director ordered that all police running radar from a police vehicle had to be clearly visible by the public, and must have 2 wheels of the police vehicle touching the pavement of the road.

radar gun.jpg

Sounds like your safety director needed to be ordered to stop obstructing the enforcement of the law, lol. I was never super interested in running RADAR, but LIDAR projects are fun. Hide one dude in the bushes (or on a bridge overhead) with a LIDAR unit, stack 6-10 cars downstream on the same road. Cue 5-10 speeding stops simultaneously. The LIDAR operator just calls out the speed and vehicle description and the next car in line goes after them. If you pick a high volume road, pretty easy to pop 30-50 drivers all doing 15+ over, in about an hour.

[seanD]

I've seen articles like this from time to time. The last one I recall was a small town in AL that hired a prodigious interdiction officer to work the small section of interstate that went through their town. They were using asset forfeiture to supplement the police budget and the prosecutor office's budget. They had a premade form for people to sign over their assets (like bundles of cash) in exchange for not being prosecuted. So you had people getting stopped with cash on hand planning to buy a used car, who have their cash seized and then they get pressured by a prosecutor to waive their rights to try claiming the property, in exchange for not being charged with a barely tangential crime that they were in fact never charged with, or really even suspected of.

The key problem seems to arise when small local governments receive a direct increase in their own budget for some sort of 'enforcement' action that is easily repeatable. It seems to start with good intentions, but pretty soon you've got to maintain high citation frequencies to keep your budget. Then pressure is applied to individual officers to maintain that citation rate, even if there's not a clearly defined number. Apply enough pressure, and now people are in fear of keeping their jobs and make questionable decisions (think of Wells Fargo and their big scandal).

I'm glad I live in a state that does not permit asset forfeiture pre-conviction, nor does my local government get any sort of money for the fines from citations issued. I do think that something like a few pennies from each citation go into an aggregate retirement fund for cops (don't quote me on that, I'm not sure) but it's not tracked in any way, nor does writing more citations directly correlate to more retirement money (at least not in any practical sense) for individual officers.

You mean.... citation quotas? I was told that was a conspiracy theory.

[myth]

You mean.... citation quotas? I was told that was a conspiracy theory.

Quotas are generally a myth. But your irate supervisor doesn't have to give you an actual number to achieve the same result, all they do is yell at you to do your job until you turn in enough citations that they stop yelling.

[seanD]

Quotas are generally a myth. But your irate supervisor doesn't have to give you an actual number to achieve the same result, all they do is yell at you to do your job until you turn in enough citations that they stop yelling.

I actually knew it wasn't a theory when a cop, standing at a light and giving out J-walking tickets like candy, wrote me a ticket for crossing the intersection not on a red light, but while that little crosswalk light was blinking and counting down to a red light (apparently if you start to cross while it's counting down, that's illegal). This was in downtown LA just a few blocks away from skidrow where you can actually see drug addicts literally shooting up in the streets pretty much with impunity.

THAT'S what convinced me it wasn't a theory.

[Gondwanaland]

I actually knew it wasn't a theory when a cop, standing at a light and giving out J-walking tickets like candy, wrote me a ticket for crossing the intersection not on a red light, but while that little crosswalk light was blinking and counting down to a red light (apparently if you start to cross while it's counting down, that's illegal). This was in downtown LA just a few blocks away from skidrow where you can actually see drug addicts literally shooting up in the streets pretty much with impunity.

THAT'S what convinced me it wasn't a theory.

Yep, an they even happen in states where ticket quotas have been made explicitly illegal:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watc...ticket-quotas/

[seanD]

Yep, an they even happen in states where ticket quotas have been made explicitly illegal:
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/watc...ticket-quotas/

Straight up shakedowns.