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Quebec to impose tax on unvaccinated

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
    but spread does. And with omicron, it's so mild there's not much difference there either


    Just as we are responsible for making reasonable eating choices and not becoming obese and causing countless expenses to the medical system. But you don't want to hold those people responsible when their negligent and reckless choices cost society because they've been negligent.
    we're done.
    My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

      we're done.
      Translation: I can't come up with a counter-argument and can't handle my logic being turned against me"
      "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
      - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post

        Perhaps you can explain why Quebec is planning on implementing this tax while allowing illegal, unvaccinated and untested immigrants to continue to flood across one of their US border areas? And housing the immigrants in the middle of Montreal, at least 1000 of them?

        And why this has been allowed to continue since the beginning of the pandemic 2 years ago?

        And how they can punish their own citizens while allowing non-citizens to come in and spread whatever diseases they have, while housing and feeding them on the taxpayer dollar?

        Is that not negligent?
        I don't know anything about the immigrants issue in Canada. But I don't think it makes much sense to have as a requirement that a reasonable policy can't be enacted before all other policies are consistent with it.

        I think the view you have of the tax as 'punishment' is incorrect. It is simply requiring the unvaccinated bear some of the horrible burden and cost they are imposing on the health care system and the people that will be forced to endure watching so many die a horrible and mostly preventable death.

        In my view we have a moral responsibility to get the vaccine. It is part of our civic and human duty to do so. A significant percentage of the unvaccinated increases health care costs, burns out health care workers, reduces the set of available health care resources, and prolongs all our suffering by dragging out the period of time covid presents a danger to us.
        My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Well considering that vaccinated people can catch and spread covid, I don't see how you can single out unvaccinated people as being more of a risk to others.

          As I said earlier, I think if anyone would put a "tax" on unvaccinated it would be the insurance companies as they are footing the bills and they would frame it as a "discount" for the vaccinated, not an extra charge on the unvaccinated. Kind of the way they give discounts to non-smokers.
          The unvaccinated get sicker and get sicker longer. They overburden the health care system, preventing others with other diseases from getting the care they need. They generate more virus and provide a greater potential for mutations that can do an end run around the treatments we have - as omicron has done.

          I think one of the reasons Canada is considering a tax is that they have a national health care system. The government pays for about 70% of canadians health care needs according to Wikipedia. So the government has an interest in recovering the extra cost the unvaccinated induce. It is only fair they recover that cost from those making the choice that is generating it rather than force the entire population to bear it.
          My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

            The unvaccinated get sicker and get sicker longer. They overburden the health care system, preventing others with other diseases from getting the care they need. They generate more virus and provide a greater potential for mutations that can do an end run around the treatments we have - as omicron has done.

            I think one of the reasons Canada is considering a tax is that they have a national health care system. The government pays for about 70% of canadians health care needs according to Wikipedia. So the government has an interest in recovering the extra cost the unvaccinated induce. It is only fair they recover that cost from those making the choice that is generating it rather than force the entire population to bear it.
            So do the obese. Indeed the majority of preventable (via lifestyle changes and different choices) covid severe sickness is among those who are obese (as that usually involves several other comorbidities).

            So it would only be fair to recover that cost from those making the bad choices of unhealthy food and overeating, rather than force the entire population to bear it.....
            Last edited by Gondwanaland; 01-14-2022, 05:38 PM.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              I don't know anything about the immigrants issue in Canada. But I don't think it makes much sense to have as a requirement that a reasonable policy can't be enacted before all other policies are consistent with it.

              I think the view you have of the tax as 'punishment' is incorrect. It is simply requiring the unvaccinated bear some of the horrible burden and cost they are imposing on the health care system and the people that will be forced to endure watching so many die a horrible and mostly preventable death.

              In my view we have a moral responsibility to get the vaccine. It is part of our civic and human duty to do so. A significant percentage of the unvaccinated increases health care costs, burns out health care workers, reduces the set of available health care resources, and prolongs all our suffering by dragging out the period of time covid presents a danger to us.
              The universal healthcare system is Canada is supposed to provide care equally for ALL it's citizens. Which is why I view this tax as punishment. It denies health care to everyone.

              It smacks of this example that took place in BC last summer, when a 13 year old boy with an injured wrist was refused treatment at a walk-in clinic because he wasn't vaccinated. And there are other examples besides this one. This in effect is causing the dreaded "2 tier" health system that liberals in this country are so against. "How dare anyone go to a clinic where they have to pay for a procedure so they can get it done faster!" is their mantra.

              https://vancouversun.com/health/can-...-it-may-depend

              Earlier this week, a 13-year-old boy with a sore wrist was turned away from an Enderby walk-in clinic because he wasn’t vaccinated and told to seek care at the emergency room in Salmon Arm instead.

              “I was flabbergasted,” the boy’s mom, Kate Stein, told Postmedia News. “The doctor wouldn’t see us. He was only accepting fully vaccinated patients.”

              The doctor said there are several factors that could impact where unvaccinated people receive care.

              “Is it a true emergency? Is it the only care centre in the community? In that case, there might be a strong obligation (for a walk-in clinic doctor) to provide care,” he said. “But if you can get the same quality or better care in a safer environment, it’s not unreasonable to ask someone to seek care there instead.”


              But another ethics expert said the doctor at the Enderby walk-in clinic shouldn’t be turning away patients. B.C.’s vaccine mandate doesn’t apply until Sept. 13, and when it does come into effect, it doesn’t apply to essential services, such as health care, said Dr. Stephen Hoption Cann, a professor at UBC’s School of Population & Public Health.

              “In this situation, I don’t see a reason why the physician shouldn’t provide care if presumably the physician and his staff are fully vaccinated,” he said. “If it was a more serious situation, travelling to Salmon Arm could cause health issues to get worse.”

              In response to Postmedia questions about the walk-in clinic in Enderby, the Ministry of Health said “walk-in clinics are equipped and staff are trained to protect themselves and other patients from the risk of COVID-19 and other communicable diseases, so an unvaccinated patient who needs health care should generally not be turned away from a walk-in clinic, based only on their vaccination status.”



              Alberta

              https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/unvaccina...nics-1.5598244

              Two Calgary women are speaking out after they were denied access into medical facilities because of their vaccination statuses.

              Bree Alexander says she took her six-month old daughter Kalayah to the MCI The Doctor’s Office clinic in the southeast to examine eczema on her infant’s foot. When she arrived and revealed she didn’t have her COVID-19 shots, she says the staff told her she wasn’t allowed in the building.

              “I just started bawling and I left,” she said.

              Alexander says she isn’t against vaccinations and that both her young children have received their shots.

              “I’m also fully vaccinated except for the COVID-19 shot because it just seems kind of forced,” said Alexander.

              The mother of two says she would also like to get more information about the vaccine before deciding to get it.

              Nickie Edwards also hasn’t received the shots because she wants to be fully informed and have the freedom to make the decision when the time is right for her.

              The 36-year-old says because of her decision to not get vaccinated, after her back surgery, she was denied an in-person follow up appointment with her surgeon at Canadian Surgery Solutions.


              There are lots of other examples, and it's not just happening here, but in the States, too.

              And for those who don't think it's "coercion", since that term is acceptable and blackmail isn't, the results of the threat of a tax are thus:

              https://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...4201642115614/

              Quebec's health minister said the Canadian province has seen an increase in vaccinations after it proposed a fine for unvaccinated individuals earlier this week.

              In a tweet on Wednesday morning, Quebec Health Minister Christian Dube said the province recorded 7,000 new first-dose appointments and administered 107,000 doses on Tuesday when the potential financial penalty was announced.


              "It's encouraging!" Dube wrote.

              On Tuesday, Quebec Premier Francois Legault said that the province would impose a health tax on residents who refuse to get their first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine in the coming weeks.

              Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told reporters Wednesday that he was awaiting more details about the proposed fine before he would support the idea, adding it must comply with the Canada Health Act -- which guarantees universal access to healthcare -- and be consistent with "the rights we all cherish as Canadians.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                The unvaccinated get sicker and get sicker longer. They overburden the health care system, preventing others with other diseases from getting the care they need. They generate more virus and provide a greater potential for mutations that can do an end run around the treatments we have - as omicron has done.

                I think one of the reasons Canada is considering a tax is that they have a national health care system. The government pays for about 70% of canadians health care needs according to Wikipedia. So the government has an interest in recovering the extra cost the unvaccinated induce. It is only fair they recover that cost from those making the choice that is generating it rather than force the entire population to bear it.
                It's not Canada. It's Quebec.

                And the government doesn't pay for any healthcare needs. I do. And I wait a darn long time for treatment, too. The government uses MY money to pay for abortions and "gender reassignment" procedures that I absolutely do not give them permission to do.

                But if I need hip surgery or another necessary procedure that is not life-threatening, I will wait sometimes for 18-24 months. The system is broken.
                Last edited by mossrose; 01-14-2022, 05:51 PM.


                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                  It's not Canada. It's Quebec.

                  And the government doesn't pay for any healthcare needs. I do. And I wait a darn long time for treatment, too. The government uses MY money to pay for abortions and "gender reassignment" procedures that I absolutely do not give them permission to do.

                  But if I need hip surgery or another necessary procedure that is not life-threatening, I will wait sometimes for 18-24 months. The system is broken.
                  While that all may well be true, it is actually another issue. It is a common story with nationalized Healthcare and part of why I am not a general fan of it.

                  Nevertheless, large numbers of people unvaccinated puts a significant burden on a health care system. That is a single, conscious choice by a group of individuals that is itself punative to those impacted by it. I see nothing unreasonable about asking them to help pay for the damage and cost they have purposefully created.
                  My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                    While that all may well be true, it is actually another issue. It is a common story with nationalized Healthcare and part of why I am not a general fan of it.

                    Nevertheless, large numbers of people unvaccinated puts a significant burden on a health care system. That is a single, conscious choice by a group of individuals that is itself punative to those impacted by it. I see nothing unreasonable about asking them to help pay for the damage and cost they have purposefully created.
                    They already pay for "damage and cost" through their taxes! What part of that don't you understand? Maybe if the government stopped forcing us to pay for abortions and gender "reassignements" they would have more money to put in to covid hospitalizations. Abortions are unnecessary and a choice! Gender "reassignment" surgeries are unnecessary and a choice!

                    Maybe if they stop allowing unvaccinated people to cross the border into Quebec and stop housing them and providing THEM with food and "free" healthcare, we wouldn't have this issue of forcing people to get a shot they don't want or need!

                    What are large numbers of vaccinated? As of last September Quebec had 80 percent of it's population vaccinated. When is enough enough? A lot of people who are vaccinated are getting the latest scare-ient, but the hospitals are not full of patients, and there are minimal deaths compared to previous versions.

                    What constitutes the right percentage of people vaccinated before the ridiculousness stops? Do we start vaccinating newborns in order to get the numbers where we think we want them?


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Now this, in BC.

                      https://www.rebelnews.com/ronald_mcd...ource=therebel

                      Ronald McDonald House BC & Yukon (RMHBC) is evicting sick children and their families that rely on the organization's housing support to be able to access life-saving treatments more easily.

                      Why, you ask? Because they are unvaccinated for COVID-19.

                      The dehumanizing policy sparked a frenzy of outrage immediately after Austin Ferguson, the father of a four-year-old boy with leukemia, uploaded a heart-wrenching video Tuesday, where he questioned an RMHBC manager about the reasoning behind throwing their unvaccinated family out.

                      “This was a family and a home to us,” Ferguson told me when I met with his family for our interview.

                      The policy to evict people in need due to their choice not take an experimental vaccine with zero long-term studies was approved by the charity's 14 member board of directors and goes into effect on January 17.

                      It requires “everyone five years or older who are working, staying, or visiting” RMHBC’s facilities in their Vancouver house location, as well as their “Family Room” in Surrey Memorial Hospital, to show proof of being “fully vaccinated (2 doses)” in order to enter their facilities.

                      Tenants such as the Fergusons were given until the end of the month to pack up and leave.

                      The policy seems both cruel and unjustified, considering Pfizer, a substantial donor to RMH and whom RMH labels as a “friend” on their website, had their very own CEO, Albert Bourla, recently admitted that when it comes to the dominant and significantly more mild Omicron variant, two shots provide “little, if any, protection” for the person injected with them.

                      “This seems to be a trending thing across the country, where they are just putting their hands around the throat of every unvaccinated person and squeezing until they obey,” Ferguson says in this full report. And I think he’s absolutely right.


                      Evicting a 4 year old with leukemia! When is the absolute insanity going to stop?



                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                        Now this, in BC.

                        https://www.rebelnews.com/ronald_mcd...ource=therebel

                        Ronald McDonald House BC & Yukon (RMHBC) is evicting sick children and their families that rely on the organization's housing support to be able to access life-saving treatments more easily.

                        Why, you ask? Because they are unvaccinated for COVID-19.

                        The dehumanizing policy sparked a frenzy of outrage immediately after Austin Ferguson, the father of a four-year-old boy with leukemia, uploaded a heart-wrenching video Tuesday, where he questioned an RMHBC manager about the reasoning behind throwing their unvaccinated family out.

                        “This was a family and a home to us,” Ferguson told me when I met with his family for our interview.

                        The policy to evict people in need due to their choice not take an experimental vaccine with zero long-term studies was approved by the charity's 14 member board of directors and goes into effect on January 17.

                        It requires “everyone five years or older who are working, staying, or visiting” RMHBC’s facilities in their Vancouver house location, as well as their “Family Room” in Surrey Memorial Hospital, to show proof of being “fully vaccinated (2 doses)” in order to enter their facilities.

                        Tenants such as the Fergusons were given until the end of the month to pack up and leave.

                        The policy seems both cruel and unjustified, considering Pfizer, a substantial donor to RMH and whom RMH labels as a “friend” on their website, had their very own CEO, Albert Bourla, recently admitted that when it comes to the dominant and significantly more mild Omicron variant, two shots provide “little, if any, protection” for the person injected with them.

                        “This seems to be a trending thing across the country, where they are just putting their hands around the throat of every unvaccinated person and squeezing until they obey,” Ferguson says in this full report. And I think he’s absolutely right.


                        Evicting a 4 year old with leukemia! When is the absolute insanity going to stop?

                        Sadly, very few seem to be waking up.
                        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
                        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                          They already pay for "damage and cost" through their taxes! What part of that don't you understand?
                          That is not how insurance works. insurance rates are based on actuarial tables with certain assumptions built in about the relative frequency of events that will incur costs.. individuals that purposefully or through negligence violate those assumptions increase the total financial burden across those insured. Most of the time insurance companies comoensate by charging more to the individuals that are 'outside the box' as it were, or they just cancel their policy.

                          It is no different with government run healthcare in that regard. Those individuals that refuse to get the vaccine are purposefully putting the system 'in the red'. The only options are to make everyone pay for their irresponsibility by raising everyone's taxes, or just focus on recovering the cost from the irresponsible parties.



                          Maybe if the government stopped forcing us to pay for abortions and gender "reassignements" they would have more money to put in to covid hospitalizations. Abortions are unnecessary and a choice! Gender "reassignment" surgeries are unnecessary and a choice!

                          Maybe if they stop allowing unvaccinated people to cross the border into Quebec and stop housing them and providing THEM with food and "free" healthcare, we wouldn't have this issue of forcing people to get a shot they don't want or need!

                          What are large numbers of vaccinated? As of last September Quebec had 80 percent of it's population vaccinated. When is enough enough? A lot of people who are vaccinated are getting the latest scare-ient, but the hospitals are not full of patients, and there are minimal deaths compared to previous versions.

                          What constitutes the right percentage of people vaccinated before the ridiculousness stops? Do we start vaccinating newborns in order to get the numbers where we think we want them?
                          Unfortunately for omicron, 95% or more would be required. Which means there will still be significant additional cost caused by the unvaccinated.

                          The other thing you are overlooking is that the pandemic is a special case situation that affects the entire population. You can't apply policies used to deal with spurious anomalies within the population to a situation that affects the entire population.

                          Bottom line: those refusing to be vaccinated are raising the cost of caring for the sick, destroying the goodwill of the medical professionals by mocking their own stress in having to deal with so much sickness and death, forcing them to unnecessarily deal with a majority population that is there not due to misfortune but rather stubborn headed disrespect for themselves and others. And it is rational and right to ask them to bear some responsibility for their recklessness.
                          My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                            Now this, in BC.

                            https://www.rebelnews.com/ronald_mcd...ource=therebel

                            Ronald McDonald House BC & Yukon (RMHBC) is evicting sick children and their families that rely on the organization's housing support to be able to access life-saving treatments more easily.

                            Why, you ask? Because they are unvaccinated for COVID-19.

                            The dehumanizing policy sparked a frenzy of outrage immediately after Austin Ferguson, the father of a four-year-old boy with leukemia, uploaded a heart-wrenching video Tuesday, where he questioned an RMHBC manager about the reasoning behind throwing their unvaccinated family out.

                            “This was a family and a home to us,” Ferguson told me when I met with his family for our interview.

                            The policy to evict people in need due to their choice not take an experimental vaccine with zero long-term studies was approved by the charity's 14 member board of directors and goes into effect on January 17.

                            It requires “everyone five years or older who are working, staying, or visiting” RMHBC’s facilities in their Vancouver house location, as well as their “Family Room” in Surrey Memorial Hospital, to show proof of being “fully vaccinated (2 doses)” in order to enter their facilities.

                            Tenants such as the Fergusons were given until the end of the month to pack up and leave.

                            The policy seems both cruel and unjustified, considering Pfizer, a substantial donor to RMH and whom RMH labels as a “friend” on their website, had their very own CEO, Albert Bourla, recently admitted that when it comes to the dominant and significantly more mild Omicron variant, two shots provide “little, if any, protection” for the person injected with them.

                            “This seems to be a trending thing across the country, where they are just putting their hands around the throat of every unvaccinated person and squeezing until they obey,” Ferguson says in this full report. And I think he’s absolutely right.


                            Evicting a 4 year old with leukemia! When is the absolute insanity going to stop?

                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              That is not how insurance works. insurance rates are based on actuarial tables with certain assumptions built in about the relative frequency of events that will incur costs.. individuals that purposefully or through negligence violate those assumptions increase the total financial burden across those insured. Most of the time insurance companies comoensate by charging more to the individuals that are 'outside the box' as it were, or they just cancel their policy.

                              It is no different with government run healthcare in that regard. Those individuals that refuse to get the vaccine are purposefully putting the system 'in the red'. The only options are to make everyone pay for their irresponsibility by raising everyone's taxes, or just focus on recovering the cost from the irresponsible parties.
                              That is such a good argument not to have it in the first place - or at least have the option to opt out. I just resigned from a company for similar behavior. It instituted a mileage-compensation plan that favored urban drivers at the expense of rural drivers. I wanted to opt out, and they said "no", because my getting the shaft helped subsidize the urban drivers. So if I was at the mercy of government run healthcare, I would be cheated by smokers, obese people (that eat Big Macs and fries everyday), drunks, and any other unhealthy lifestyle.

                              Unfortunately for omicron, 95% or more would be required. Which means there will still be significant additional cost caused by the unvaccinated.

                              The other thing you are overlooking is that the pandemic is a special case situation that affects the entire population. You can't apply policies used to deal with spurious anomalies within the population to a situation that affects the entire population.
                              At least half of the population is asymptomatic with covid. Of the remainder, the majority barely get sick and don't require hospitalization. I worked for a hospital in SW Missouri, which was a hotspot for Delta in 2021, and the system was not overtaxed. The only time it got backed up was when covid first hit in 2020 and they weren't prepared for it. Afterwards, no problem.

                              Bottom line: those refusing to be vaccinated are raising the cost of caring for the sick, destroying the goodwill of the medical professionals by mocking their own stress in having to deal with so much sickness and death, forcing them to unnecessarily deal with a majority population that is there not due to misfortune but rather stubborn headed disrespect for themselves and others. And it is rational and right to ask them to bear some responsibility for their recklessness.
                              I'm sorry, but that is just wrongheaded.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                                That is such a good argument not to have it in the first place - or at least have the option to opt out. I just resigned from a company for similar behavior. It instituted a mileage-compensation plan that favored urban drivers at the expense of rural drivers. I wanted to opt out, and they said "no", because my getting the shaft helped subsidize the urban drivers. So if I was at the mercy of government run healthcare, I would be cheated by smokers, obese people (that eat Big Macs and fries everyday), drunks, and any other unhealthy lifestyle.
                                an insurance company that does not act to reduce its liability to those that purposefully abuse its availability is a bankrupt insurance company.

                                That said, many private insurers have been sued for using that reality to abuse its customers for the sake of higher profits.

                                But in this case where people are stubbornheadedly refusing a lifesaving vaccine, the problem is those stubborn headed and irresponsible people.


                                At least half of the population is asymptomatic with covid.
                                A key reason as many as possible need to be vaccinated as an act of goodwill towards those that would not be asymptomatic and would be struggling for each breath having caught it from them.


                                Of the remainder, the majority barely get sick and don't require hospitalization.
                                A half truth. While the mortality is declining, over 800,000 have died. And I can tell you many people I've known, including one 20 year old, suffered greatly when they caught it. A mortality in the 1% range is really the worst. It means there are too few deaths for it to universally affect us all, spurring us to action, and it leaves open the possibility of rampant misinformation being believed while at the same time there are too many deaths for the medical system not to be overwhelmed by it.

                                I worked for a hospital in SW Missouri, which was a hotspot for Delta in 2021, and the system was not overtaxed. The only time it got backed up was when covid first hit in 2020 and they weren't prepared for it. Afterwards, no problem.
                                I would have hoped you would understand that just because your specific experience in the hospital was not overwhelming does not mean that was not the case elsewhere, or that it was not a real problem other places.


                                I'm sorry, but that is just wrongheaded.
                                unfortunately, it is right headed. However it is clear you are not yet either willing or able to understand that.
                                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-16-2022, 10:25 AM.
                                My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

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