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  • #16
    Originally posted by Roy View Post
    As best I can tell, his comment is completely unverifiable and probably false. There have been a dozen or so omicron fatalities in the UK in the last fortnight, so omicron is not non-fatal; various reports are estimating that omicron fatalities are about 25% of those of delta rather than 0%; and South Africa doesn't have enough facilities to determine which variant was present in each of the ~600 covid fatalities they had last week.

    I was hoping not to have to derail into the details of a dubious unsupported and unsupportable claim. I'd rather stop here.


    No one has died from the Omicron coronavirus variant in a study of Johnson & Johnson's (JNJ.N) COVID-19 vaccine in South Africa, one of the co-lead investigators of the study said on Tuesday.

    "Although we have had a lot of breakthrough infections there has been very little hospital admission in comparison to the Delta period. And as of today we have had no one who has died from Omicron from the J&J study, so that's the good news, it shows again that the vaccine is effective against severe disease and death," South African Medical Research Council president Glenda Gray told a news conference.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/africa...ys-2021-12-14/


    A study out of South Africa found the country may have already passed the peak of it omicron-fueled surge in cases of the coronavirus, with data suggesting the variant has not caused a corresponding jump in hospitalizations and deaths.

    https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-with-no-major
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      No one has died from the Omicron coronavirus variant in a study of Johnson & Johnson's (JNJ.N) COVID-19 vaccine in South Africa, one of the co-lead investigators of the study said on Tuesday.
      That study of healthcare workers found that booster shots reduced hospitalizations by 85% compared to vaccinated people without boosters. So a very good reason to get a booster shot.

      The study population was limited to vaccinated healthcare workers and was not all South Africans nor all Africans. So this lends no merit to your absurdly false claim of "Omicron burned itself out in Africa... without causing a single fatality". Instead it demonstrates that the vaccine is quite effective:
      "it shows again that the vaccine is effective against severe disease and death," South African Medical Research Council president Glenda Gray told a news conference.


      A study out of South Africa found the country may have already passed the peak of it omicron-fueled surge in cases of the coronavirus, with data suggesting the variant has not caused a corresponding jump in hospitalizations and deaths.

      https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...-with-no-major
      The article you cite says no major spike in deaths. The graph in the article does show an increase in deaths, just not a large increase.

      Do you understand why you seeing an article about only a small increase in deaths and you repeating that as zero deaths is a falsehood on your part?


      Omicron indeed seems to be less virulent than other strains, but it's still causing some deaths. Here's a good recent article:
      South Africa Omicron variant excess deaths a fraction of other waves
      The number of excess deaths [in South Africa], a measure of mortality against a historical average, in the week to Dec. 26 fell to 3,016 from 3,087 the week earlier, the South African Medical Research Council said in a report on Wednesday. Official deaths due to Covid-19 declined to 425 from 428.

      That compares with a peak of 16,115 [excess deaths] in the week to Jan. 10, when the beta variant was ripping through the country and South Africa had yet to start its vaccination drive. In July weekly excess deaths peaked at just over 10,000 during a wave of infections driven by the delta variant while the initial outbreak, caused by the virus first identified in China, peaked at 6,674 in July 2020

      So depending on how you want to measure it (excess deaths vs the more conservative metric of confirmed covid deaths), South Africa's getting about 425 to 3016 deaths per week still.

      Roy is totally right that your spewing of obviously false information is unhelpful to discussion. Try seeing truth as a Christian value that you ought to aspire to. Remember the bit about liars being from their father the devil?
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        That study of healthcare workers found that booster shots reduced hospitalizations by 85% compared to vaccinated people without boosters. So a very good reason to get a booster shot.

        The study population was limited to vaccinated healthcare workers and was not all South Africans nor all Africans. So this lends no merit to your absurdly false claim of "Omicron burned itself out in Africa... without causing a single fatality". Instead it demonstrates that the vaccine is quite effective:
        "it shows again that the vaccine is effective against severe disease and death," South African Medical Research Council president Glenda Gray told a news conference.


        The article you cite says no major spike in deaths. The graph in the article does show an increase in deaths, just not a large increase.

        Do you understand why you seeing an article about only a small increase in deaths and you repeating that as zero deaths is a falsehood on your part?


        Omicron indeed seems to be less virulent than other strains, but it's still causing some deaths. Here's a good recent article:
        South Africa Omicron variant excess deaths a fraction of other waves
        The number of excess deaths [in South Africa], a measure of mortality against a historical average, in the week to Dec. 26 fell to 3,016 from 3,087 the week earlier, the South African Medical Research Council said in a report on Wednesday. Official deaths due to Covid-19 declined to 425 from 428.

        That compares with a peak of 16,115 [excess deaths] in the week to Jan. 10, when the beta variant was ripping through the country and South Africa had yet to start its vaccination drive. In July weekly excess deaths peaked at just over 10,000 during a wave of infections driven by the delta variant while the initial outbreak, caused by the virus first identified in China, peaked at 6,674 in July 2020

        So depending on how you want to measure it (excess deaths vs the more conservative metric of confirmed covid deaths), South Africa's getting about 425 to 3016 deaths per week still.

        Roy is totally right that your spewing of obviously false information is unhelpful to discussion. Try seeing truth as a Christian value that you ought to aspire to. Remember the bit about liars being from their father the devil?
        But you'd have to show evidence that the deaths in South Africa were actually from Omicron. And not from, say, delta still lingering, people dying who had been in the hospital a long time from delta, etc.. But pretty much everyone has been garbage at even estimating how much omicron is in circulation let alone giving detailed stats on deaths wrt omicron.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
          So depending on how you want to measure it...
          And that's the trick, isn't it? Even Fauci the Fraud recently admitted that China flu hospitalizations were being (I suspect deliberately) exaggerated because they didn't bother to distinguish between people who were in the hospital because of the China, or if they were there for an unrelated reason and just happened to test positive. People have been gaming the numbers from day one which is why it seems impossible to get any solid facts about this thing.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            You were asked not to post in this thread.

            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Roy View Post
              The top plot shows the number of covid-19 cases identified in the US. The bottom plot shows the number of deaths reported two weeks later.
              They correlate very closely.
              I find trying to assess Omicron a bit frustrating because the data sources can vary as how they count hospitalizations and deaths. Do you know of any good UK data sources that would allow me to have a good look at Omicron's progress there?

              It looks like in Canada deaths are beginning to tick up because of Omicron, and the hospitalization metrics are through the roof. But I'm unsure if the hospitalization metric is an artefact of "people who were in hospital for other things happen to have caught Omicron" rather than "these people are in hospital due to getting Omicron".

              So far, here in New Zealand, we've managed to keep Omicron out. However, given its contagiousness it's doubtful our current border quarantine will be good enough to keep it out much longer. Though South Africa's experience seems to be that vaccinated people do well against it and we have a very highly vaccinated population here (92% of over-12s are doubly vaccinated).
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                You were asked not to post in this thread.
                And it was explained to you by a moderator why your request was not appropriate, so tough cookies.

                Meanwhile:

                Johannesburg — Among the legions of scientists working around the clock in South Africa to track and study the coronavirus, including those who quickly detected the Omicron variant and alerted global authorities to it, a phrase has become increasingly common in recent days: describing this fourth wave as very different.

                The lack of high death and hospitalization rates, despite the fact that Omicron has spread at breakneck speed across the country and accounts for most of the infections over the past three weeks, is the most glaring difference.

                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-o...pitalizations/
                Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                Than a fool in the eyes of God


                From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  So far, here in New Zealand, we've managed to keep Omicron out. However, given its contagiousness it's doubtful our current border quarantine will be good enough to keep it out much longer. Though South Africa's experience seems to be that vaccinated people do well against it and we have a very highly vaccinated population here (92% of over-12s are doubly vaccinated).
                  Wasn't there a British DJ who was given an exemption to go into New Zealand, left home isolation early, and had Omicron?

                  You're right, it is only a matter of time, though. Some day the country will have to join the rest of the world.
                  ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                    Wasn't there a British DJ who was given an exemption to go into New Zealand, left home isolation early, and had Omicron?
                    It appears to not have spread to anyone from him.
                    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Roy View Post
                      You were asked not to post in this thread.
                      1. Bill already informed you that you can't.

                      2. You can't kick someone, then start talking about them in the thread you kicked them from, and expect them to have to stay away and not defend themselves. You continued talking about him after your attempt to kick him, so you very clearly opened it back up for him to continue posting, even 1 had not occurred.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post
                        You're right, it is only a matter of time, though. Some day the country will have to join the rest of the world.
                        It's conceivable that Omicron will burn itself out pretty fast across the rest of the world... seems to have had about a 2 month turn-around time in South Africa. We would only have to stay shut til it was gone from the world. Given the borders have been shut for near to two years, a few more months doesn't seem much to wait.

                        Alternatively, we could let it in. The current plan seems to be to do that around 1 March. The advantage of waiting until then is that it gives most people a chance to have a booster shot of vaccine if they want (given the timings around when people had their 2nd doses), it gives some of the newly-developed covid treatment drugs time to be gotten ready for use, and it gives time for the experts to analysis international data on omicron and organize hospital resources optimally to deal with its anticipated spread here.
                        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          I find trying to assess Omicron a bit frustrating because the data sources can vary as how they count hospitalizations and deaths. Do you know of any good UK data sources that would allow me to have a good look at Omicron's progress there?
                          Not really. The number of new cases has been through the roof for the last fortnight, and hospitalisations are rising (though not as steeply), but the number of fatalities remains roughly the same, suggesting that the increased transmissibility is balanced by a decreased virulence.

                          One BBC report highlighted that omicron generally resides higher in the airways, thus spreading more easily without affecting the lungs as much. We do have some confirmed fatalities from Omicron, but nowhere near as many as there would have been from previous variants.
                          So far, here in New Zealand, we've managed to keep Omicron out. However, given its contagiousness it's doubtful our current border quarantine will be good enough to keep it out much longer. Though South Africa's experience seems to be that vaccinated people do well against it and we have a very highly vaccinated population here (92% of over-12s are doubly vaccinated).
                          As best I can tell, vaccination isn't preventing transmission much, but is reducing severity.
                          Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                          MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                          MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                          seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                            1. Bill already informed you that you can't.

                            2. You can't kick someone, then start talking about them in the thread you kicked them from, and expect them to have to stay away and not defend themselves. You continued talking about him after your attempt to kick him, so you very clearly opened it back up for him to continue posting, even 1 had not occurred.
                            Only to correct Bill's error. Having to explain why you don't want some-one in a thread should not, IMO, allow them back in.



                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Roy View Post
                              Only to correct Bill's error. Having to explain why you don't want some-one in a thread should not, IMO, allow them back in.
                              But as was explained to you, you had no cause to try and ban me from your thread in the first place.

                              On the topic of Omicron fatalities, it was recently admitted by the Centers for Disease Control here in the United States that a staggering 75% of those who have been reported as China flu deaths in fact had four or more comorbidities. In other words, people who already had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. Fauci the Fraud also admitted that the majority of people who were cataloged as being hospitalized because of the China flu were, in fact, hospitalized for an unrelated reason and just happened to test positive while they were there.

                              https://www.kusi.com/cdc-director-75...comorbidities/

                              https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahba...tions-n2601257

                              Which leads to the obvious question: Is the danger from Omicron being similarly grossly exaggerated? Frankly, I have no good reason to think it isn't.
                              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                              Than a fool in the eyes of God


                              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Roy View Post
                                Only to correct Bill's error. Having to explain why you don't want some-one in a thread should not, IMO, allow them back in.


                                Yeah sorry that's not how it works. Right now it sounds like questioning moderation

                                And yeah, if you kick someone, and then talk crap about them, you're inviting them back to the thread, sorry.

                                Comment

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