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Canadian universal healthcare, eh? Think again

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

    The only way to know that would be if we could go back in time and see what happens if there were no vaccines.
    Nope, we can see directly with the numbers of vaccinations vs infections. No need to travel back in time to look at basic statistics.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...581?via%3Dihub

    The epidemiological relevance of the COVID-19-vaccinated population is increasing


    High COVID-19 vaccination rates were expected to reduce transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in populations by reducing the number of possible sources for transmission and thereby to reduce the burden of COVID-19 disease.

    Recent data, however, indicate that the epidemiological relevance of COVID-19 vaccinated individuals is increasing.

    In the UK it was described that secondary attack rates among household contacts exposed to fully vaccinated index cases was similar to household contacts exposed to unvaccinated index cases (25% for vaccinated vs 23% for unvaccinated). 12 of 31 infections in fully vaccinated household contacts (39%) arose from fully vaccinated epidemiologically linked index cases. Peak viral load did not differ by vaccination status or variant type [1]. I

    n Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [2].

    This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission. A similar situation was described for the UK. Between week 39 and 42, a total of 100.160 COVID-19 cases were reported among citizens of 60 years or older. 89.821 occurred among the fully vaccinated (89.7%), 3.395 among the unvaccinated (3.4%) [3].

    One week before, the COVID-19 case rate per 100.000 was higher among the subgroup of the vaccinated compared to the subgroup of the unvaccinated in all age groups of 30 years or more.

    In Israel a nosocomial outbreak was reported involving 16 healthcare workers, 23 exposed patients and two family members. The source was a fully vaccinated COVID-19 patient. The vaccination rate was 96.2% among all exposed individuals (151 healthcare workers and 97 patients). Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely ill or died, the two unvaccinated patients developed mild disease [4].

    The US Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) identifies four of the top five counties with the highest percentage of fully vaccinated population (99.9–84.3%) as “high” transmission counties [5].

    Many decisionmakers assume that the vaccinated can be excluded as a source of transmission. It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures.
    1-s2.0-S2666776221002581-gr1.jpg
    "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
    - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

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    • #47
      Did you see the picture in your own link?

      Incarceration.JPG

      For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

      Darn that totalitarian regime in Australia! Imprisoning all those people! Why can't they understand freedumb like the US does?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        Did you see the picture in your own link?

        Incarceration.JPG
        I saw it. I don't like it. Trump made some efforts to rewind it, but too many Leftoids voted Biden into office, who would like nothing more than to lock up the unvaccinated in concentration camps. That's the full context of my link.

        For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

        Darn that totalitarian regime in Australia! Imprisoning all those people! Why can't they understand freedumb like the US does?

        I don't wish to continue derailing this thread. NT

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
          It sure sounds to me like you are defending the policy to deny healthcare.
          Are you claiming, in the presence of the Triune God, that I am in favour of the Canadian Government denying healthcare to unvaccinated Canadians? If so, what is your evidence for making this claim?
          "We will repeal and replace disastrous Obamacare." - Donald Trump on July 22, 2016
          "I never said repeal and replace Obamacare." - Donald Trump on March 24, 2017

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

            Are you claiming, in the presence of the Triune God, that I am in favour of the Canadian Government denying healthcare to unvaccinated Canadians? If so, what is your evidence for making this claim?
            It appears so, the imaginary presence of your deity notwithstanding.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Reepicheep View Post

              Are you claiming, in the presence of the Triune God, that I am in favour of the Canadian Government denying healthcare to unvaccinated Canadians? If so, what is your evidence for making this claim?
              It seems to me that you've brought this up before. I will not play your game.

              If you do not agree with the policy currently in this country, then just say so.



              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Did you see the picture in your own link?

                Incarceration.JPG

                For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

                Darn that totalitarian regime in Australia! Imprisoning all those people! Why can't they understand freedumb like the US does?

                Maybe we have more criminals per capita than other nations? Or just actually give a damn about taking them out of our general population? Until Biden got in power anyway.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                  https://www.jccf.ca/canadian-healthc...7B4w5Cn5zmEEBs

                  There has never been a shortage of chest-puffing over Canadian healthcare.

                  “Every Canadian, no matter where they live, who they are or what they do, should receive the care they need to stay healthy,” says Justin Trudeau.

                  “Public healthcare is part of being Canadian. It’s … there for every person, when they need it,” says Alberta NDP Leader Rachel Notley.

                  “Canada’s system of universal health care is perceived by many as the crowning achievement of Canadian social policy.” (Allen vs. Alberta, 2015 ABCA 277)

                  What does “universal” mean? It simply means what it says: it’s for everyone.

                  So, in Canada, Canadians in need get treatment. Whether you’re liberal or conservative, black or white, gay or straight, old or young, employed or unemployed, healthy or unhealthy you get treatment. Our health care system is there for you if you’re a smoker with lung cancer, an alcoholic, a murderer, a drug dealer or a prisoner. If you’re a heroin addict and you’ve overdosed nine times in the last nine months, they still send the paramedics for you when you take your next bad trip.

                  The state pays for it all, and by the state, I mean the taxpayer.

                  There is, however, an exception to universality. Increasingly, it turns out that not all are welcome.

                  You likely know who the new modern pariahs are.

                  They are the same ones who are now forbidden to travel; who cannot enter restaurants; who are losing their jobs by the tens of thousands. They are the ones who do not have one of the new golden QR codes which open the doors of society for the privileged, even though many of them have had Covid and recovered, and have natural immunity which is said to be superior to shot-induced immunity.

                  Shamefully, in Canada, doctors are increasingly discriminating against those who are pejoratively referred to by government and the media alike as “the unvaccinated.”

                  Vilifying a group of people as dirty or disease spreaders has long been a part of the totalitarian playbook.

                  In August, the Enderby Medical Clinic refused to see a 13-year-old who had fallen off of his skateboard. It was irrelevant the child has almost zero statistical risk from Covid. It was irrelevant that both the vaccinated and unvaccinated both contract and spread Covid at roughly equal rates. He hadn’t had the shot, so he was therefore banned from the “universal” healthcare clinic. Also in Enderby, a man was turned away from a clinic due to his Covid vaccination status after he got chlorine in his eye.

                  In Montreal, the sole surviving family member and caregiver of a loved one in the hospital was turned away because she has not had the Covid jab. In Alberta, a medical team is refusing to perform a transplant operation for a patient who has a terminal lung disease, and who will die without the transplant.

                  A recent media request for confirmation from all provinces and territories regarding how many are being turned away revealed that Alberta does not track this information. Ontario reported 68 complaints had been received, but this also included complaints regarding a lack of in-person care generally.


                  In a country where health officials closely monitor the public, it seems once again there is insufficient oversight of health officials. And apparently, at least according to a recent poll, the majority of Canadians agree with the refusal of service to belligerent unvaccinated persons. Not sure who thought that brilliant polling question up. News flash: emergency rooms on a Saturday night have plenty of drunken and belligerent vaccinated patients, all of whom receive treatment.

                  The bigger point is medical ethics prohibits discrimination regarding the provision of health care. The Hippocratic Oath offers no defense to the bigoted doctor who refuses to treat a patient who has decided not to submit to one of the new mandatory Covid shots. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms offers no defense to a doctor who, as a state actor in a supposedly “universal” system, discriminates against an unvaccinated patient. Doctors should not pick and choose who they treat on the basis of their identifiable characteristics, including their Covid vaccination status.

                  It’s not only unconstitutional to turn away patients because of medical bigotry and elitism, it is also immoral.


                  When are people going to wake up!
                  Yeah... this is why I've been getting my health in order for the past year (that and it's been made painfully clear here in Saskatchewan that our government is NOT acting in good faith). The less I have to see doctors, the fewer chances I have to be denied healthcare and/or gaslit as an antivax conspiracy theorist (again).
                  Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

                  Proud Anti-Fascist. Even Prouder Anti-Communist. You've been Warned.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post

                    Yeah... this is why I've been getting my health in order for the past year (that and it's been made painfully clear here in Saskatchewan that our government is NOT acting in good faith). The less I have to see doctors, the fewer chances I have to be denied healthcare and/or gaslit as an antivax conspiracy theorist (again).
                    You know, I have been absolutely gobsmacked at the antics of Alberta and Saskatchewan particularly over the last couple of years. Jailing pastors and the idiotic lockdowns, etc., when our so-called Conservative leaders should not have been doing those kinds of things.

                    I know the east and the Left coast are fully capable of doing those, but not our 2 provinces. At least not until now.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                      You know, I have been absolutely gobsmacked at the antics of Alberta and Saskatchewan particularly over the last couple of years. Jailing pastors and the idiotic lockdowns, etc., when our so-called Conservative leaders should not have been doing those kinds of things.

                      I know the east and the Left coast are fully capable of doing those, but not our 2 provinces. At least not until now.
                      Honestly, even during the Harper era, it felt like the Conservative parties- federally and provincially- were just the Liberal parties driving 20km below the speed limit. It's one of the reasons why I've cringed whenever people tell me that Christians should support the "Conservative" Parties... it was only a matter of time till the church got thrown under the bus, and COVID just gave them a chance to do so.

                      Also, I'm not amused with our leadership... it's painfully clear the Moe-ron enacted the recent restrictions because his ego got bruised after Trudeau called him out in a speech. That being said, it just confirmed to me that these restrictions aren't being done in good faith.
                      Mercenary Maxim 37: There is No 'Overkill.' There is merely 'Open Fire,' and 'I need to Reload.'

                      Proud Anti-Fascist. Even Prouder Anti-Communist. You've been Warned.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Chaotic Void View Post

                        Honestly, even during the Harper era, it felt like the Conservative parties- federally and provincially- were just the Liberal parties driving 20km below the speed limit. It's one of the reasons why I've cringed whenever people tell me that Christians should support the "Conservative" Parties... it was only a matter of time till the church got thrown under the bus, and COVID just gave them a chance to do so.

                        Also, I'm not amused with our leadership... it's painfully clear the Moe-ron enacted the recent restrictions because his ego got bruised after Trudeau called him out in a speech. That being said, it just confirmed to me that these restrictions aren't being done in good faith.
                        Yeah. And Kenney is kowtowing to the NDP nut jobs. A lot of his own MLA's are disgusted with him.


                        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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