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  • #16
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    Nonsense. It profits to actually check facts rather than taking sensationalist reporting as reliable
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-59486285

    Howard Springs: Australia police arrest quarantine escapees

    Australian police have arrested three people who broke out of a Covid quarantine compound in the middle of the night.

    The Howard Springs centre near Darwin in the Northern Territory is one of Australia's main quarantine facilities for people returning to the country.

    Police said the trio scaled a fence to break out of the facility.

    Officers found them after a manhunt on Wednesday. All had tested negative to Covid the day before.

    Officials did not state whether the escapees were returning travellers or locals in quarantine...
    more

    There are interviews on YouTube of people who have been locked up at Howard Springs. They were "traced" and sent there, not travellers.

    Sounds like a leper colony. Really dignified!

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
      I already checked my facts. You literally have internment camps where people are taken to (some against their will, others trusting their government foolishly),where people are arrested for escaping, etc.. That's an internment camp.
      It is a quarantine facility designed to provide accommodation for people entering the country for two weeks, and medical facilities for those who need them. Internment camps by contrast, don't have a release date of a fortnight after the date of entry. The facility has been pressed into service for treatment of Covid patients from areas where medical facilities are inadequate - for the Northern Territory, that is 90% of the state. (Katherine is the third largest town in the NT: resident population is less than 11,000). People not suffering from covid but who are subject to a quarantine order do not ordinarily wind up in that facility - people who violate quarantine orders do - sometimes. And yes, violation of quarantine is not acceptable to the majority of the Australian population.

      And all it indicates is that your people are cowering or complicit.
      Complicit? Certainly - we like things to be done in a certain way, and as I stated previously: our ways are not your ways. Nor do we (as a generalisation) see anything in American ways that can be considered superior to our own.

      You really have a fantasy that the government and its policies aren't in control there? Mossrose has already pointed out the idiocy of the rationale being claimed.
      ? What makes you think that governments here have that much control? Oh - of course, you think that ours is a totalitarian state. I'm not sure whether that belief should be attributed to provincialism or naivete.

      I agree. I'm very much against the insanity happening in the state I currently live in. The question is, why are you defending it and deflecting from it in your own country?
      I was deflecting nothing: merely pointing out that basing the assessment of an entire country on the activities in one state is illogical. Nor am I defending the actions taken in a foreign state that I know very little about.
      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by tabibito View Post

        It is a quarantine facility
        A forcible quarantine facility with fences and guards to keep people in......

        designed to provide accommodation for people entering the country for two weeks, and medical facilities for those who need them.
        When I 'provide accommodation' for friends or relatives, I do not lock them in the basement and then hunt them down, handcuff them, and drag them back when they go outside.

        Internment camps by contrast, don't have a release date of a fortnight after the date of entry. The facility has been pressed into service for treatment of Covid patients from areas where medical facilities are inadequate - for the Northern Territory, that is 90% of the state. (Katherine is the third largest town in the NT: resident population is less than 11,000). People not suffering from covid but who are subject to a quarantine order do not ordinarily wind up in that facility - people who violate quarantine orders do - sometimes. And yes, violation of quarantine is not acceptable to the majority of the Australian population.
        Yes, I understand, just like those dirty Jews and their diseases were not acceptable to the Germans, rite?

        You're living in an authoritarian society, and people like you are directly complicit.

        Complicit? Certainly - we like things to be done in a certain way, and as I stated previously: our ways are not your ways. Nor do we (as a generalisation) see anything in American ways that can be considered superior to our own.
        Yeah, we know that for sure, after all you've had internment camps for, what, two decades, for brown-skinned refugees (and meanwhile let white-skinned South African refugees come in without issue)..... once you reach that level of dehumanization, it doesn't take much for 'your ways' to justify doing the same to your own citizens.

        ? What makes you think that governments here have that much control? Oh - of course, you think that ours is a totalitarian state. I'm not sure whether that belief should be attributed to provincialism or naivete.
        Because they do.....
        I was deflecting nothing: merely pointing out that basing the assessment of an entire country on the activities in one state is illogical. Nor am I defending the actions taken in a foreign state that I know very little about.
        You most certainly were. You have spent this and the other thread defending the authoritiarian actions of your Country, and deflecting from their behaviors.
        "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
        - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
          A forcible quarantine facility with fences and guards to keep people in......

          When I 'provide accommodation' for friends or relatives, I do not lock them in the basement and then hunt them down, handcuff them, and drag them back when they go outside.

          Yes, I understand, just like those dirty Jews and their diseases were not acceptable to the Germans, rite?

          You're living in an authoritarian society, and people like you are directly complicit.
          Yeah, we know that for sure, after all you've had internment camps for, what, two decades, for brown-skinned refugees (and meanwhile let white-skinned South African refugees come in without issue)..... once you reach that level of dehumanization, it doesn't take much for 'your ways' to justify doing the same to your own citizens.
          Because they do.....


          You most certainly were. You have spent this and the other thread defending the authoritiarian actions of your Country, and deflecting from their behaviors.
          Fences are necessary where people are not willing to obey the rules - that's why there are prisons. People who won't obey the rules will always try to brand attempts to curb their behaviour totalitarian.


          But I'll leave your parochial prejudices and judgmental attitudes in peace.
          1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

            Fences are necessary where people are not willing to obey the rules - that's why there are prisons.
            You really didn't think this through. Thank you for further proving my point by making a comparison to prisons.
            Hint: I don't put bars on the windows and doors of people who I am making accommodations for, nor do I imprison them if they don't 'obey the rules'

            People who won't obey the rules will always try to brand attempts to curb their behaviour totalitarian.
            When those rules subvert basic human rights, yes, attempts to arrest them, corrall them, and contain them in prison camps are indeed totalitarian.

            But I'll leave your parochial prejudices and judgmental attitudes in peace.
            Okay, bootlicker. Just don't come crying to us when it's you being put on the train.
            Last edited by Gondwanaland; 12-08-2021, 02:20 AM.
            "So when you actually get the virus, you're going to start producing antibodies against multiple pieces of the virus. So, your antibodies are probably better at that point than the vaccination."
            - Pfizer Scientist Chris Croce

            Comment


            • #21
              Given the US has vastly more people in prison per capita than any other Western country, I don't think any Americans can reasonably try to lecture Australia about freedom. You should be humbly asking Australians to educate you about freedom.

              Especially given Australia provides healthcare to its citizens and has done a vastly better job of shielding its population from this pandemic.

              And pretending that quarantining sick people for a couple of weeks is in any way comparable to actual concentration camps where internment was permanent and race-based is pretty morally disgusting and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                And pretending that quarantining sick people for a couple of weeks is in any way comparable to actual concentration camps where internment was permanent and race-based is pretty morally disgusting and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
                I think the argument is that people who aren't sick but have a high probability of becoming sick - also being quarantined - is somehow totalitarian. Of course, when people in that position heed the rules, they aren't removed from their homes to a place where they don't have the opportunity to break the rules.
                1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                  Given the US has vastly more people in prison per capita than any other Western country, I don't think any Americans can reasonably try to lecture Australia about freedom. You should be humbly asking Australians to educate you about freedom.

                  Especially given Australia provides healthcare to its citizens and has done a vastly better job of shielding its population from this pandemic.

                  And pretending that quarantining sick people for a couple of weeks is in any way comparable to actual concentration camps where internment was permanent and race-based is pretty morally disgusting and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves.
                  THere's nothing like Starlights "I hate America" posts to warm the soul.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                    Fences are necessary where people are not willing to obey the rules - that's why there are prisons. People who won't obey the rules will always try to brand attempts to curb their behaviour totalitarian.
                    That is a classic Authoritarian Defense Strategy.

                    Imprisonment is just for rule breakers, like people who refuse your needle.

                    Your naivete is funny.

                    But I'll leave your parochial prejudices and judgmental attitudes in peace.
                    Should people expect your silence on America?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      When are people going to wake up!
                      It is certainly the case where my authoritarianism is better than your authoritarianism.

                      I think those that defend it just don't care.

                      They see it, and don't care.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Maranatha View Post

                        That is a classic Authoritarian Defense Strategy.

                        Imprisonment is just for rule breakers, like people who refuse your needle.
                        Of course it is. Any attempt to impose order is authoritarian.

                        Should people expect your silence on America?
                        If as and when I condemn America, objections are warranted.
                        1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post
                          You literally have people in internment camps and at best have had a few thousand people out protesting. You're cowering.
                          I don't think he is. As you said, it's a strange source of national pride for him to cheer on the tyrants even as they're putting the boot on his neck.

                          "Just do as you're told, and you will have nothing to fear. "
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Gondwanaland View Post

                            Literally denying lifesaving operations, you really think more simple ones aren't next? I get that you have some sort of national pride fueling you, but at this point your country is nosediving into authoritarianism. Time to speak up and fight back, not cower and bend over.
                            To be fair, there are a lot of rules you have to follow in order to get a transplant. Not just the COVID Vaccine. You have to have other vaccinations too, like Hepatitis AB. And you have to stop smoking and drinking. If you are too overweight you have to lose weight. You have to have to undergo regular examinations and tests. The transplant organs are in short supply and the transplant waiting list is long. If you don't follow the rules you don't get on the list. A lung transplant patient who keeps smoking would not be allowed a lung transplant for example. They figure if you can't follow the rules before the transplant you won't follow them afterwards and that organ could go to someone who is more likely to live with the transplant than you.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                              It has been shown that the vaccine has a negative effect on anti-rejection drugs. How long will the patient needing a transplant need to wait after the vaccine to get the surgery after being vaccinated? Are they supposed to wait months or years? How long after the surgery would the patient have to wait until the vaccine doesn't affect the anti-rejection drugs? Weeks? Months?

                              Hmmm?

                              None of it makes any sense. And if pure discrimination against those in need of health care. In Canada, you pay a whopping amount of taxes in order to get "free" health care, and no one, ever, should be denied treatment in this country.

                              I cannot speak to other countries, I only have experience with my own broken system.
                              No. The anti-rejection drugs have a negative effect on the vaccine. It suppresses the immune system so the vaccine won't work well if you get it after a transplant. That's why they want you to get the vaccine BEFORE the transplant, so you will already have the antibodies and immune system primed to fight off COVID before you get the transplant and go on the anti-rejection drugs.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                                Of course it is. Any attempt to impose order is authoritarian.
                                So then Biden is a yuge totalitarian, yuge.

                                ​​​​Certainly, any complaints of authoritarianism, totalitarianism and tyranny by you are purely hypocritical.

                                If as and when I condemn America, objections are warranted.
                                Then Americans will still laugh at your totalitarian regime, it is warrented.

                                Comment

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